... You know what Monkeygod? Your right. You are absolutely right. The power disparity between the different characters of this game is tremendous. Where on the one hand we have Alyssa, who at this moment in time is only a little stronger than your average commoner, and on the other hand we have characters like Vulture King flying around, who is a literal, and mechanical, God. Nameless’ own power levels, and the huge amount of resources and abilities that I’ve been pouring into his character makes the situation even worse, meaning that its nigh-impossible to give the party a challenge that is on par of all of their abilities without simply curb-stomping several of the weaker members into the ground.
But, isn’t that half the point of this game?
Yasss specifically stated that they were accepting anything and everything for this game. Whatever character you wanted, whatever flavour you wanted, and whatever mechanics you wanted. No matter how ludicrously overpowered or stupidly stuffed full of abilities that might make them. Or, no matter how surprisingly, laughable weak and pathetic it might have made them. Such an broad and open character creation means that it's almost impossible to avoid there being a significant disprancy of power between characters. Perhaps not to the extent that we are currently seeing... but undoubtedly expected to a rather significant degree.
Because of this, you can’t try and DM this game like this is an ordinary campaign, where you try and draw up challenges that challenge the entire party, and give them each an equal time to shine from a mechanical standpoint. This is a game where you have to balance the mechanical challenges of the characters, with the thematic and emotional challenges of the characters. Characters such as Alyssa, Zaidel and Kei? They will likely need mechanical challenges just as much as thematic and emotional challenges. Tough, powerful opponents that they will have to work together in order to overcome, learning how to work together as a team and pooling their abilities. Allocating their resources in the best possible manner to defeat the threats against them.
For a character such as Nameless however? The challenges have to be more on the emotional side of the RP. Testing how the endless march of time had left the powerful warrior numb to the world around him, and the struggles of his allies. Seeing whenever or not it is possible for someone with such a storied pass could come to regret the many sins he had inflicted over the aeons of his life, without being driven to the point of insanity due to the weight of these sins... and seeing how long his investment in the party, and their individual quests may be, when even now, there seems to be little he can find that can challenge him.
This game was always going to have a power disparity. Trying to eliminate it, is just going to eliminate what makes this game so unique and fascinating.
Yasss has also said she doesn't fully understand the rules, which is why she appointed Joseph as her 'rules GM'. Who, has been MIA for quite some time.
I believe there was an agreement that if any character ended up needed a rework, such would be acceptable.
Asking to implement the fix to mythic vital strike doesn't eliminate the massive power disparity, but it does make it somewhat more manageable.
After all, I assume you have plenty of tricks up your sleeve that would offset losing all that excess damage.
Nameless' power isn't a problem Monkeygod, everyone here has a shtick and his is being an unstoppable whirlwind of destruction.
As GM's we are omnipotent, if we wanted we could kill Nameless in an instant.
I could decide an overdiety hates Nameless for some reason and have the giant flaming butt of doom descend from the sky and fart on him to death, 100,000,000,000,000 damage bypassing all abilities and killing him forever, no save.
That really isn't the point of GMing in my eyes though, I like to think the point is to weave an awesome story and have players experience a good amount of wish fulfillment and be entertained, while making some friendships among the party that may even last past the game.
If the problem is Fury's historically soggy attitude I understand but that is more of an out of game issue than a in game issue and should be talked about as such. At the moment though Fury is doing well, he is polite and responsive and I feel at ease, if he gets real soggy again I'll talk to him.
He has frustrated both of us off and on historically, but is that the current problem or is game balance the current problem?
Game balance.
As I said, Legendary Games has an entire section in their Mythic Hero's Handbook about the challenges of mythic play.
They helped write Mythic Adventures, prior to their own mythic work as a 3pp which made them famous.
One such issue is the stacking of multipliers, as things get out of hand quick.
I'm not sure how asking to use what basically amounts to errata to tone down Nameless' massive amount of damage would somehow rob him of wish fulfillment.
He even just stated that for Nameless, it's not about how much ass he can kick, but all the emotional turmoil and anguish, etc that he's looking forward to with his character.
Also, using the mythic fixes and solutions for all who are mythic, PC or otherwise, is probably a good idea, just in general. It keeps things both epic, yet not insanely so.
Game balance.
As I said, Legendary Games has an entire section in their Mythic Hero's Handbook about the challenges of mythic play.
They helped write Mythic Adventures, prior to their own mythic work as a 3pp which made them famous.
One such issue is the stacking of multipliers, as things get out of hand quick.
I'm not sure how asking to use what basically amounts to errata to tone down Nameless' massive amount of damage would somehow rob him of wish fulfillment.
He even just stated that for Nameless, it's not about how much ass he can kick, but all the emotional turmoil and anguish, etc that he's looking forward to with his character.
Also, using the mythic fixes and solutions for all who are mythic, PC or otherwise, is probably a good idea, just in general. It keeps things both epic, yet not insanely so.
Alright then, I am on board with the errata, let's apply it then gently move on, yes?
Would the 350-400ish points of damage still make Roland's head explode? Don't mind, just curious mainly.
I was gonna suggest that attack is fine, and not be changed damage wise, as I like the RP Nameless has started.
Just, going forward, the reduction is in effect.
I was gonna suggest that attack is fine, and not be changed damage wise, as I like the RP Nameless has started.
Just, going forward, the reduction is in effect.
I agree.
Would the 350-400ish points of damage still make Roland's head explode? Don't mind, just curious mainly.
No, it wouldn't but I like the way things turned out so it's fine.
You know, talking of Legendary Games and Vital Strike reminded me of the fact that Legendary Games has some very enjoyable Vital Strike upgrades for a Vigilante... so I think I've found the first way I'll be levelling up, gaining Vigilante Talents and abilities with the Exposed Vigilante archetype.
At the very least, I finally got the Mythic part of his character complete.
He blinked.
“It's not for me.” He answered, a slight tone of genuine confusion entering into his tone of voice as he spoke to the deity. Did Vulture King did not hear what he had just said? That had to be it, as from he had seen of the deity thus far, he wasn’t one to make such a clear and obvious misunderstanding. “He’s an Apogee Society member.” Nothing else needed to be said. There was no need for him to elaborate on the fact that information pointed towards this group as having been within a jail created by Apogee Society. Thus, being able to talk directly to someone from that society might be able to better confirm whenever or not this was actually true or not... and if so, why were their prisoners.
There was just no need for him to say it, as it was clearly obvious.
Nope, way too passive aggressive for me, I'm sorry Fury, I've tried quite hard to make room for you in this game but in the end you are just too much of a disruptive presence for me to make this work. I'm going to have to ask you politely to leave this game, you are dragging it down far more than you are adding to it.
I am not interested in arguing about this, please just politely go.
Nope, way too passive aggressive for me, I'm sorry Fury, I've tried quite hard to make room for you in this game but in the end you are just too much of a disruptive presence for me to make this work. I'm going to have to ask you politely to leave this game, you are dragging it down far more than you are adding to it.
... I.... beg your pardon? How is that passive aggressive? Its just Nameless' line of thought in the current situation. You said that you don't want to argue about this... but, I'm sorry, I'm not leaving because your misinterpreting my actions.
Especially now, when I've listened to the complaints of the other RPs here, and have just committed myself to take a more active role in the RP where possible.
Frustratingly, I timed out on the hour as I was typing up an edit to better ensure that it did not come across as passive-aggressive.
Ok, I accept your explanation, but I'm still kicking you out, because I am a giant a!!*#+& who kicks people out for no reason, please leave.
Oh my,
While I readily admit to having quite the adversarial relationship with Fury/Nameless lately, I personally had no issue with his in game post. I read it as basically 'hey guys, this here dead dude has ties to the people who imprisoned you, maybe you should bring him back to life so you can talk to him?'
Expect, obviously, said it much less verbose manner.
However, I am not about to start an argument with the GM. Just want to give my personal take, especially since I have no love loss with the 'offending' player.
I agree with Monkeygod on this. It strikes me as passive aggressive certainly, but not to an incredible extent. It doesn’t irk me much, though it is a bit annoying. That said, I’ve dealt with far worse. In any case, Yass, you have the final say but I thought I’d put in my two cents.
It's all good, it's more about the pile of stuff that's been happening the entire game with Fury. I read the tone of that last post and decided I didn't want to deal with this anymore.
I entirely admit to being unreasonable in my reaction to that specific post.
I've just realized I really don't like the way Fury relates to people, it isn't fun for me, and I don't want to do it anymore, I want to concentrate on having fun and spinning tales, not dealing with interpersonal conflicts and hostile rants.
Edit: It's a tiny straw that broke the camels back situation.
Wow! Never seen that before on the forums! Just when I think he was starting to 'get it'.
Yass, you're the DM. I love the way things have been flowing so far. I suppose your choice.
... I don't know why I even bothered trying to get help here. No one gives a f~+!. They just see it as someone b$+++ing on the internet about something minor that is no f@#~ing issue for them. And if they do actually bother reading it. They always. Always f&+&ing side with the Admins. Because it is never their f%~!ing fault, their never the ones in the f$@$ing wrong. No, its always the complainer. No matter how calm, respectful and formal I make my complaints, no matter how much I use logic and reasoning. No one gives a f+$* about anyone else and can't be assed to give anyone five minutes of their time.
No wonder this world is such a s#!@-hole... if we can't do the small things, we have no f&!*ing chance of doing the big ones...
Honestly stuff like the above has been weighing on me for awhile, I can't emotionally deal with it, sorry for being an arbitrary jerk, I just have to protect my peace of mind.
Anyway, back to the game.
Honestly stuff like the above has been weighing on me for awhile, I can't emotionally deal with it, sorry for being an arbitrary jerk, I just have to protect my peace of mind.... I don't know why I even bothered trying to get help here. No one gives a f~+!. They just see it as someone b$+++ing on the internet about something minor that is no f@#~ing issue for them. And if they do actually bother reading it. They always. Always f&+&ing side with the Admins. Because it is never their f%~!ing fault, their never the ones in the f$@$ing wrong. No, its always the complainer. No matter how calm, respectful and formal I make my complaints, no matter how much I use logic and reasoning. No one gives a f+$* about anyone else and can't be assed to give anyone five minutes of their time.
No wonder this world is such a s#!@-hole... if we can't do the small things, we have no f&!*ing chance of doing the big ones...
Uh, to be clearer I meant stuff like people hostilely dumping their anger from somewhere else randomly into my game, I wasn't referring to the content of his post.
To be fair, a profanity laden post of such magnitude is never good. Like, I curse a ton IRL, but I try very hard to avoid doing so on the forums, unless it either heightens my point, OR I'm rather upset.
But that^^? That was quite a bit too much.
To be fair, a profanity laden post of such magnitude is never good. Like, I curse a ton IRL, but I try very hard to avoid doing so on the forums, unless it either heightens my point, OR I'm rather upset.
But that^^? That was quite a bit too much.
Yeah, whats funny is I could have tolerated it fine if it was about the game or something about our collective situation but it had literally nothing to do with the game or us, it was when he was trying to recruit us to fight a war against an administrator on a completely different website.
I was trying to be supportive but it made me very uncomfortable, I don't like inside drama much less outside drama brought in.
In the end he wasn't doing anything wrong, it was just awkward and inappropriate at that point in time.
But whatever, let's just move on, sorry for the drama everyone.
Yasss, you have a PM from me, when you can get to it :)
Yasss, you have a PM from me, when you can get to it :)
Sent you a reply=)
Now that we're back down to 5, I was considering extending invites to several select players on these boards that I have a good relationship with, and who could potentially add a lot to the game.
Anybody else have similar people they trust to join us??
I'm completely open to new players, just try to make sure they are team players who won't give me a headache. =p
On another note I'm sorry I kinda ruined your girlpower story Artemis P, that betrayal situation was planned out in advance but it got kinda weird when basically the way it played out was Alyssa enabled the villains then had to listen to a man explain why she should have listened to him.
eh, keep at it, it will work out for her in the future. =D
Alright. Been a day or so since the decision was made. Enough time for the initial emotions to cool down, for other voices to join in the conversation and state their own opinions on the matter. Enough time for people to step back, and look at the situation in a more rational matter. Hopefully now, we’ll be able to properly discuss this matter.
And I think it is best to start with an explanation about myself. As a high-functioning member of the autism spectrum, I have difficulties in certain areas of social interaction. The subtleties of conversation and more important the tone of a speech from the choice of words and statements is undoubtedly the most challenging part of social interaction for me. Once you take into account that the fact that communication over the internet is done almost entirely through emotionless text, without any further social cues like body language or facial expressions.
It is, quite frankly, a recipe for misunderstanding.
For example, when I made my post last page, pointing out the fact that Zadiel hadn’t actually used his Spontaneous Resurrection. I was simply amused at how Nameless’ dramatic rescue had been forgotten twice now. Probably because it really wasn’t all that dramatic and was a rather anticlimactic reveal of himself to the others, an error on my part. Monkeygod however, from what I can tell, took my post as a complaint. Going with his following post discussing ‘your whining’. Which in turn, lead to the recent... discussion between myself, Monkeygod, and the rest of the people involved in this RP. Which, I admittedly did not handle with the greatest of grace, reacting in a far too defensive manner at the start, and for which I apologize.
Then there is the straw. The passive-aggressive post that I made with Nameless. I completely and utterly failed to realize the fact that it was a passive-aggressive response until I showed a good friend of mine what I had posted. As up until he laid it out to me, I simply wasn’t able to see where my error was. Again, I apologize for the fact that my post was actually passive-aggressive, despite the fact that it hadn’t been the
Which, now leads me to the reason why you are uncertain at my continued participation in this roleplay Yasss... my attitude. On a personal level, I do not believe that my attitude has been such a significant issue that it would require me to be removed from this game. However, as I am very aware of the fact that it is very easy for me to misjudge the tone of my posts and the mood of other people. I can only offer an apologize for whenever my actions have caused you grief and frustration. The sheer potential, scope and possibilities that this game has provided is unlike any other game I have ever come across before, and I do not think there has ever been a game that I have ever been more excited about and invested in seeing develop over time. The fact that I have not come across as this is a fact that I can only apologize for... and hope that my explanation has helped you understand that it has never been my intention to cause trouble within this game.
If, after this explanation of how many of these mistakes have come about... If, after my apologies for the mistakes I have made... and if, after the others have voiced their own opinions on the matter, you still wish for me to leave... I will. I don’t want to. I don’t want to see my journey in this game stopped short before it could really begin. I don’t want to miss Nameless having a chance to grow and develop, to face the sins of his past, and come to terms with who he is. I don’t want all of the work and effort I’ve put into recording all of his numbers and abilities (and still forgetting half of them!), to go to waste...
But, you are the DM Yass. It's your call in the end.
... And as for that post of mine, where I gave into my anger and frustration? I can only give you my deep, sincere apologies for that post. Alongside a wish that I had been able to delete it, once the spur of the moment emotions had passed, and I realized how stupid of an action it had been.
Quite frankly, the fact that Paizo denies me the ability to delete or edit my posts after an hour has passed, just makes it so much easier for me to make mistakes...
I roleplay Nameless on his own, having to follow the lead on the Apogee Society, and how it might reflect his purpose in the multiverse, without the aid of the others.
A private, one on one roleplay would allow a full demonstration of my enthusiasm of this game, how much I wish to see Nameless grow and evolve, as well as exploring this fantastic, diverse, multiverse of yours Yass. Whilst at the same time, reducing the potential of a miss-step of mine creating unnecessary conflict within the group, and more grief for you. Hopefully meaning that I would be able to show you the best parts of my personality and attitude, instead of just some of the worst factors involved
Still, this is only a suggestion, and it would likely create more work for yourself Yasss. So feel free to just discard everything in this spoiler.
I was going to write a much longer post but I think I'll simplify it. I accept your apology and it's all good. I am not going let you back into the game or GM for you. Maybe it's because I have a friend with autism as well as several relatives so I have experience with that or just call it irrational woman's intuition but something about you strikes me as not genuine.
I am not saying you aren't autistic, I'm just saying that something about the above actually reinforces my feeling that I made the right decision.
The way that the post above is a heartfelt plea for sympathy subtly interwoven with a bit of flattery, etc hints that you actually know quite well how social interactions work.
I dunno, I just have a gut feeling something is wrong here. You're striking me more as a slick manipulative troll than a misunderstood person with a disability.
I've had this feeling for awhile in my gut and I've been ignoring it and trying to work with you but no, I feel something is wrong here.
I don't want to be a person who persecutes a person with a disability but I think you know that.
Somethings wrong here.
I apologize if I have wronged you.
I guess I'm an irrational jerk.
Safe travels.
I think the biggest thing I can take away from all of this is the fact that it would seem that Yasss is in fact a woman, and I no longer need to be unsure when using female pronouns when describing her.
... You have got to be kidding me.
Like. You have GOT to be kidding me here.
I make a post, opening up to you about my difficulties. Openly admitting to you my flaws and apologizing for it. Hoping that my explanation will help you understand why there have been misunderstandings in the past, and how these misunderstandings might help us avoid them in the future...
And... and you see this as an attempt to manipulate you? You see me as some type of slick, manipulative troll, for making a post opening up about my flaws and disability?
That after I took the time to give you time to breathe and think about the decision rationally, that after I gave everyone else time to mull the situation over, and did my best to reach out to you, in order to work best the issues that you've only just fully communicated to me... your going to be going with a 'gut feeling' here?
Just... what?
... If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction...
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Hey all. I know it has been a couple of months but I just wanted to hop in and apologize for up and abandoning the campaigns I was in. I had a 48-hour notice that I was leaving the country for my job (which wasn't even supposed to be an option but we had an emergency come up in the form of another guy having to come home and I was the only one who COULD leave on short notice) and literally haven't had public internet until now (I returned home on Friday). I'm not in here trying to get my spot back or anything like that, I just wanted to apologize and hope it didn't cause you guys any issues with the campaign.
You were missed 'old man'! I wouldn't mind you coming back!
BOOOOOOYY! Did miss a s#!+-ton!
I was just thinking the same thing Zaidel!
Well Fury, I can't tell you what it really is, I can only tell you what it looks like to me, and in that regard, I owe an apology.
To Monkeygod.
Out of curiosity I reread all the gameplay and discussion threads ignoring the story content and just focusing on the social interaction and I realized something; You were being subtly disrespectful and antagonistic since the beginning. Monkeygod was the one most effected by it (though I suspect many of us felt it to at least some extent) and he was trying to confront you on it, but like some of us at the time he had the feeling but I don't think we understood why so he kept trying to confront you on in game issues but you kept having really good arguments for why those things weren't right, and you were correct.
See, but I think Monkeygod was more aware of what was happening on some level than the rest of us and what the real issue was wasn't anything in game, it was the fact that you were being a bully.
The more Monkeygod responded to this subtle bullying and disrespect the more you played innocent, respectful and reasonable(with others), eventually getting it to the point where he was bringing stuff up in an antagonistic way that felt pointless(I think because of the completely correct feeling of unresolved disrespect) and he looked like an a#%$+$* who kept starting s&%* and began to exasperate us, but he wasn't the a#~&~#* Fury, you are.
I apologize Monkeygod, you weren't being an a&&%#@~ you were just being antagonized.
Now, regarding you Fury you can take your guilt trip and shove it where the sun don't shine, I'm willing to bet large money you aren't sharing your faults and struggles at all, I think you are just s!%*ting bricks because you have lost control of the situation.
Now maybe anyone or everyone in this party disagrees completely with my assessment. That's fine, they are entitled to their opinion and it's entirely possible I am completely wrong but it doesn't matter from the point of view of keeping you in this game, you are gone, even if it's just because I am a crazy b$@&*.
Now, one last time, I am politely asking you to leave.
Hey all. I know it has been a couple of months but I just wanted to hop in and apologize for up and abandoning the campaigns I was in. I had a 48-hour notice that I was leaving the country for my job (which wasn't even supposed to be an option but we had an emergency come up in the form of another guy having to come home and I was the only one who COULD leave on short notice) and literally haven't had public internet until now (I returned home on Friday). I'm not in here trying to get my spot back or anything like that, I just wanted to apologize and hope it didn't cause you guys any issues with the campaign.
Welcome back! Feel free to join back up anytime you'd like.
On a final note if you feel the need to keep coming at me Fury may I remind you that you said this two posts ago:
If, after this explanation of how many of these mistakes have come about... If, after my apologies for the mistakes I have made... and if, after the others have voiced their own opinions on the matter, you still wish for me to leave... I will. I don’t want to. I don’t want to see my journey in this game stopped short before it could really begin. I don’t want to miss Nameless having a chance to grow and develop, to face the sins of his past, and come to terms with who he is. I don’t want all of the work and effort I’ve put into recording all of his numbers and abilities (and still forgetting half of them!), to go to waste...
But, you are the DM Yass. It's your call in the end.
I am the DM, the buck stops here, and you said you would leave if I still wished it, I do, now please leave this game.
... So.
Let me get this straight.
I make a post. Explaining how I have trouble with the tones of my posts, and can easily make mistakes in how people will most likely interpret my posts.
And you respond by saying that the post is evidence that I am a slick, manipulative troll. Then you go back and re-read my old posts, and state that I have been an antagonizing bully?!
... I just... Wow. Just. Wow.
Are you even the slightest bit aware of how colossally stupid and self absorbed such a response is?! Let alone the fact that your basically rejecting the fact that I am autistic, because you apparently forgot that austism is a huge spectrum that affects people in various different ways?
Just. Wow.
If this is what your actually like Yasss. I am more than happy to leave. It's only a matter of time before such stupidity and narrow-mindess causes the game to self-destruct!
... So.
Let me get this straight.
I make a post. Explaining how I have trouble with the tones of my posts, and can easily make mistakes in how people will most likely interpret my posts.
And you respond by saying that the post is evidence that I am a slick, manipulative troll. Then you go back and re-read my old posts, and state that I have been an antagonizing bully?!
... I just... Wow. Just. Wow.
Are you even the slightest bit aware of how colossally stupid and self absorbed such a response is?! Let alone the fact that your basically rejecting the fact that I am autistic, because you apparently forgot that austism is a huge spectrum that affects people in various different ways?
Just. Wow.
If this is what your actually like Yasss. I am more than happy to leave. It's only a matter of time before such stupidity and narrow-mindess causes the game to self-destruct!
Mmmmmm. It's very possible I have misread your reactions to things, doubly possible that I have misread Monkeygod's but like I said, I can't tell you what it really is, I can only tell you what it looks like to me.
If this is nothing but an effect of your disability than that sucks, and I am sorry.
What it looks like to me Fury is that you are very good at purposely making people feel upset, antagonized, and uneasy without knowing exactly why and then pleading misunderstanding and innocence with great skill when they eventually lash out to your subtle bullying.
I believe, intentionally or not, you are playing a game, just not the one the rest of us are trying to play.
Now, you may have the last word if you want it.
And now..back to the adventure!!
You were missed 'old man'! I wouldn't mind you coming back!
BOOOOOOYY! Did miss a s#!+-ton!
I don't know whether I should be excited or scared.
I do have a couple of questions obviously before I jump back in:
Is the posting rate still super quick? My schedule the way it is now I can promise 1/day only. More only if work is SUPER slow.
Any changes I should be aware of character-wise (I'll read the story to catch up, as I get time to do so, but a quick rundown is all this question is for)?
How would you want to handle Lucas showing back up?
I'm currently running an undead apocalypse plot, though this particular scene is about to wrap up, I think. We'll see.
As far as PCs go, Alyssa, myself, Vulture King, Zaidel and Kei are still here.
Joseph has gone MIA, and Bage had to drop out. As he was in the middle of a combat, I just teleported him to another dimension.
Our ghost(Argos, I think), who didn't really post all that much to begin with, has also disappeared(fitting, lol).
And, well, you can read the Nameless/Fury situation over the last week+.
That leaves just you. Posting is still quick, but I feel it's slowed some as Yasss has some RL stuff that prevents her from posting as much as she used to, though that's picked up some lately. You're totally OK if you post 1/day, I think.
As to how you show back up, well, it makes sense that Lucas was doing the same as I had Liriiestil do, which is gather and protect refugees from around the city.
I have a few ideas about how to have you actually re-enter game play, but it depends on how the current conversation between Zai and VK go, and what they end up doing. So ya might need to wait a day or so anyways to come back in play :)
That's fine with me. It'll give me time in the evenings to sort through Lir's story and at least get an idea of what I had been doing. Was the undead apocalypse plot part of Yasss' main campaign or was that a side-thing while she was sorting RL things?