How would you make "White" in PF?


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Reference

How would you go about making "White" in PF? For bonus points, how would you design "Red"?


Who is it that you're talking about?

Edit: didn't see the reference link, I got nothing

Grand Lodge

Guardians of Order found out the hard way that trying to convert Anime into D20 leads to major disappointment. On the other hand, the last trick she pulled was definitely the "Greater Bladed Dash" spell.


I'd go with Magus class. It's not as good, but it'd be close with spells like Haste, feat like Arcane Strike, perhaps cleave with a fancy effect on it.

Her sword is clearly a Flaming, Frost, Electric Rapier.
Ask gm to allow learning Symbol spells and take Perfomance(singing, dancing)

Grand Lodge

Ramza Wyvernjack wrote:

I'd go with Magus class. It's not as good, but it'd be close with spells like Haste, feat like Arcane Strike, perhaps cleave with a fancy effect on it.

Her sword is clearly a Flaming, Frost, Electric Rapier.
Ask gm to allow learning Symbol spells and take Perfomance(singing, dancing)

At 19th level,most Magi can pick any two wizard spells of each spell level and add it to the list. Spell Blending Arcana also allows this on a one spell per arcana basis.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kazaan wrote:

Reference

How would you go about making "White" in PF? For bonus points, how would you design "Red"?

Nice. The Red fight is the only one I've ever seen to make using a scythe in combat appear to be (sort of, kind of, maybe...) something that could actually work.


I am pretty sure this is racist...

Liberty's Edge

Based on the fight:

White -> Magus [Kensai], with Rapier as chosen weapon

She is obviously extremely adept at unarmored fighting, favoring her mobility spells heavily. She uses the rounds in which she does not need the extra mobility to store a spell into her spell-storing blade, allowing her to potentially release 2 spells and a full-round attack in a single turn. The weapon is probably a +1 agile spell-storing (or better) combined with a stave. Enchanting a sword as a stave is not in the rules, but isn't much of a stretch. At worst, make up a "stave-storing" property (probably +2 or +3) that lets you use the stored stave when wielding the weapon.

Red -> Fighter

She is extremely adept at mixing ranged and melee fighting, so she almost certainly has Point-Blank Master for her weapon, with both Guns and Heavy Blades as weapon groups. Despite her frame, she is extremely strong. Obviously has Gunsmith to maintain the weapon, but uses the Greater Reliability enchantment to prevent misfires. The gun is more advanced that even the advanced guns listed in Ultimate Combat, but is most closely modeled with the Shotgun listed under "Advanced". The scythe part may not have any enchantment on it at all, but if it does it has Vorpal (so much decapitation!) or Impact. The fact that the two are merged into one weapon can be blamed on clever gnomish tinkerers. I suggest fighter because they would need a LOT of feats to pull off all the elements of their fighting style as well as they do.


Looks good, though Red's weapon is actually based on a bolt-action rifle, not a shotgun.

Liberty's Edge

Kazaan wrote:
Looks good, though Red's weapon is actually based on a bolt-action rifle, not a shotgun.

Yeah, I realized that on a second watching, which means the gun only needs Reliable, not the greater version.


And endless ammo, maybe?

Liberty's Edge

Kazaan wrote:
And endless ammo, maybe?

Well, she does "reload", though there's no way a PF gun would be able to do what she did without endless ammo. Sadly, the endless ammo ability specifically says "no firearms". I would probably ignore that if I were DM, but then again I hate most of the gun rules so I tend to ban them anyway (too much work to change gunslinger and ancillary rules; easier to ban). (Note: I have no problem with guns conceptually, just their mechanical execution.)


I'm not entirely sure she "needed" to reload at that point. She just swapped out the "normal" ammo for the "special" ammo. Can a rifle clip be made like a bag of infinite holding?

Liberty's Edge

Kazaan wrote:
I'm not entirely sure she "needed" to reload at that point. She just swapped out the "normal" ammo for the "special" ammo. Can a rifle clip be made like a bag of infinite holding?

There is no existing item that does so, but if I were the sitting DM I'd probably say "Sure, why the hell not."


Magus was my first thought, but I am going to go with archeologist bard/shadow dancer.


I enjoyed both of those very much. Any idea when the other 2 will be out?


Well, it was about 3 months between them, but I think the next two will only be about 1.5-2 months between or so.

Liberty's Edge

Upon closer examination, Red (actual name "Ruby") does NOT have a high strength score. Every single time she swings that scythe she's actually shooting a bullet to get the necessary momentum. On that note I believe she'd actually have the equivalent of the "Agile" weapon property on her scythe (in defiance of normal limitations of that property).

Another, more interesting interpretation of Ruby would be a Monk [Sohei], house-ruled to allow all fighter weapon groups as weapon training selections so that she can flurry with both a Scythe and a Rifle. Toss the Guided weapon property on both and you have a character with "meh" strength, high dex and high wisdom. Give up Diamond Soul to get Abundant Step back (Qinggong archetype) and you can even pull the opening teleport move. With Ki Weapon she *really* doesn't need more than a +1 on her weapons. This puts her at about 13th level or higher, which means she'd have at least 5 attacks in a full-round (6 with a ki point or haste). She attacks a hair faster than that, so she's probably level 17 or higher to get those extra attacks which, with rapid shot and a ki point, would actually allow her to pull off the rate of attacks portrayed in the trailer.


StabbittyDoom wrote:
(Note: I have no problem with guns conceptually, just their mechanical execution.)

FWIW, I like the 3.5 firearms rules - which basically sum down to "work like bows, just with EWP required and do more damage" and gets rid of the whole "touch attack within a certain range" thing. (I need to reread them though, I'm not sure if they have a misfire mechanic or anything, nor how it's handled if it does - I haven't needed to use them for years.) I haven't yet played around with running a Gunslinger under the 3.5 firearms rules though, so I can't tell you off the top of my head how it would work out.

Liberty's Edge

Speaking of the idea of firearms as glorified crossbows: The issues with using a Rifle as the base for Ruby's weapon go away if you just write "repeating crossbow" (with quotes) as the weapon and then flavor it as a gun. The description for repeating crossbow even has the reloading lever!

As far as banning guns at my table: If someone really wants to play a gun character, I'll go through the work to re-do the rules. Until then it's easier just to say "no" to avoid giving false impressions. Most of the "redo" would be replacing abilities that work off the touch-AC rule and removing abilities meant to reduce drawbacks (removing the drawbacks from the get-go).


Yeah, that's been on my to-do list for a while - the next campaign that I have someone interested in playing a Gunslinger for won't be starting for over a year, at best. If/when I ever get around to it I'll send you a note, see what you think =)


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They're both Solar Exalted. Pretty sure I saw Peony Blossom Attack in there...


Red- Obviously an Inquisitor, because of the Holy Symbol and I could definitely get some She is tiny and anime, so likely a Gnome.

Being as though Gnomes can be automatically proficient in weapons they make with a particular racial trait, we can say she made the weapon, and therefore is proficient, I would echo the above sentiment that it probably has the guided property (and probably Holy as well), making her significantly less MAD. Since she is a gnome, I would also add that it is probably powered by ThunderStones, much like the Piston Maul.

Dip a level or three in monk for increased Wisdom usage. For equipment, use a Monk's robe and a Cape of the Mountebank, and boots of haste to get all you need.

Apart from editing, I only saw 4, maybe 5 shots in 6 seconds, So a 8th level character could pull off 4 with rapid shot and boots of haste. Of course she would be ridiculously over WBL, and I could be wrong, but it was fun to speculate a build.

I'll do white later.

Liberty's Edge

Oterisk wrote:

Red- Obviously an Inquisitor, because of the Holy Symbol and I could definitely get some She is tiny and anime, so likely a Gnome.

Being as though Gnomes can be automatically proficient in weapons they make with a particular racial trait, we can say she made the weapon, and therefore is proficient, I would echo the above sentiment that it probably has the guided property (and probably Holy as well), making her significantly less MAD. Since she is a gnome, I would also add that it is probably powered by ThunderStones, much like the Piston Maul.

Dip a level or three in monk for increased Wisdom usage. For equipment, use a Monk's robe and a Cape of the Mountebank, and boots of haste to get all you need.

Apart from editing, I only saw 4, maybe 5 shots in 6 seconds, So a 8th level character could pull off 4 with rapid shot and boots of haste. Of course she would be ridiculously over WBL, and I could be wrong, but it was fun to speculate a build.

I'll do white later.

You don't need to be a particular class to be religious, so that by itself is a poor argument for inquisitor. That said, nothing she did was out of line for an inquisitor, though I have a hard time envisioning that character using spells.

The only time she attacked faster than 4-5 times per round was when she was rapid-firing with the scythe pinned to the ground to handle recoil, at which point I counted about 4 in 3 seconds for a maximum speed of 8 per round. This is an upper limit, however, so I feel it's appropriate to assume at least 2 of those would come from abilities like rapid shot or a haste equivalent (like spending a ki point). Being conservative and assuming she can only manage 6 shots per round, this still requires more attacks than an inquisitor can get, making a flurry-like ability the most likely explanation.

Also, I just realized that Sohei does not restrict their ability to flurry with non-standard weapons to the weapon groups listed. You can do it with any weapon in which you have weapon training. With 8 Sohei and 9 Fighter you could have weapon training for both Guns and Heavy Blades and flurry for 5 attacks (6 with a ki point). Not a bad spread, though a late bloomer.

As for the "holy" route: I would actually say that the character would be better served going Paladin 4/Monk [Martial Artist?] X and taking Crusader's Flurry, somehow having a god with Scythe-Gun as a favored weapon. This allows a build of as low as 5th level to get 3 gun attacks per round (4 if hasted). That said, she's probably 8th level or higher. This route ends up with more potential attacks at max level than the sohei/fighter mix (up to 9 with rapid shot + haste/ki-point).

As for race.. I choose not to bother with that topic :).

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