I simply don't have room after the ranged attack feat tax.
AS an alchemist I would like to go the Lich route as default. Keeping my eye open on other undead/evil templates that might fit me better.
OK I found the psot that said HP increase is Half +1.
As half of a 1d8 is 4.5, does my hp increases by level look something like this?
1) +8
2) +5
3) +6
4) +5
5) +6
and so on?
And I take it Alchemist Formulae don't count? I thought it fit so well for an alchemist (creating a phylactery and preserving my body with preservatives over time) that I didn't look too closely at the requirements.
@DM R: Is Lich ok for an Alchemist? I am not dead set on being one but I wouldn't know what to be if not a lich. Vamp requires something like 5 feats right?
Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
Emphasis Mine.
EDIT: Level Up Summary
Bat Shape feat; Quiet as Death training trait
Added Touch of the Sea to Formulae Book
Only preparing 3/5 extracts (So I can prepare the rest later as needed)
Took Drow Sign language (and now have a +6 Linguistics)
Bombs are 2d6+5 now 8/day.
Formula Alembic lets me add valid potions to my Formulae Book without using them up.
Hybridization Funnel will let me combine two mundane alchemical splash weapons (Craft(alchemy) DC 25) into a single 24 duration splash weapon (after which they go inert).
Wow, everyone seems set to become undead.
I´m actually unsure about that.
Lich or Vampire?
Vampire gives huge attribute boni, but costs 5+ feats. A hard thing for a sorcerer.
Lich isn´t as huge a bonus, but only one feat and another one maybe later.
Also, a +6 on my CHA score might be overpowering. That will be 26 for sure, with some items and points perhaps 30 or more. All DC´s will skyrocket then, also many bonus spells. And as an undead, a lot of hitpoints hehe. I would have put a point in CON at level 4, but i guess that better goes to WIS instead and the rest to CHA.
+8 to STR could be nice too, but Kana doesn´t want to be strong, she relies on magic and others to service her, which is her birthright^^
Since it´s a good time and the bard seems gone:
Would it be ok to change bloodline from fey to sylvan?
-2 on DC´s but an animal companion. Perhaps a tiger i could ride on :D
It could also be a hellcat, perhaps costing a feat or being a reward for something sometime. Actually, reconsidering the initial plan for leadership feat and the monstrous mount ability, there is a hell hound listed as CR7, which is just the Crof a hellcat. Might be an idea.
Eventually it could be transformed into an vampiric animal companion. Either as lich or vampire maybe? But maybe with a hellcat that´s not necessary.
This is of course up to your liking too, you need to handle that then.
I´m also fine on trying stuff and if it dosn´t work out, loosing or relearning things.
I also consider taking the Kitsune feat "fox form" at level 6, i could be a good scout then if it´s needed.
All of that stuff actually fits Kana as i picture her personality. Especially the leadership hellcat thing.
Also, did we have the chance to buy some equipment or do we have gold to do that?
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And I take it Alchemist Formulae don't count? I thought it fit so well for an alchemist (creating a phylactery and preserving my body with preservatives over time) that I didn't look too closely at the requirements.
@DM R: Is Lich ok for an Alchemist? I am not dead set on being one but I wouldn't know what to be if not a lich. Vamp requires something like 5 feats right?
** spoiler omitted **
EDIT: Level Up Summary
Bat Shape feat; Quiet as Death training trait
Added Touch of the Sea to Formulae Book
Only preparing 3/5 extracts (So I can prepare the rest later as needed)
Took Drow Sign language (and now have a +6 Linguistics)
Bombs are 2d6+5 now 8/day.
Formula Alembic lets me add valid potions to my Formulae Book without using them up.
Hybridization Funnel will let me combine two mundane alchemical splash weapons (Craft(alchemy) DC 25) into a single 24 duration splash weapon (after which they go inert).
Feat: Lich
You have undergone the rigorous and blasphemous ritual of lichdom and emerged as an undead creature of legend.
Prerequisites: You have completed the ritual of attaining lichdom, evil alignment, must be able to cast 5th level arcane or divine spells.
Benefits: You gain the template Lich
You definately don't have to become undead. Cole was thinking of becoming a half fiend of asmodeus. If you can think of something cool you would like then I can work with you to make it happen. Maybe Kana strengthens her fey connections or something who knows.
Also Drow Sign Language is a secret language like druidic. Not sure you can just pick it up like that.
Cole I will let you add to the trait that you can pick one to be a class skill, that sounds closer in power to most other skill bonus traits.
Now is the time to lock in any character changes. I won't give any options for it after this. Kana wants Sylvan instead of Fey bloodline, not sure if anyone else was unhappy with a choice they made at creation.
Fletch you can become a Lich at the apropriate level. 11 at the earliest. Must take to Craft Wondrous Item feat to craft your Phylactery and it costs 100,000 to create as well as you have to actually find the ritual.
HP per level is half max +1. d6 = 4. d8 = 5 etc...
Yeah dark fey would sound good too. Only i have no idea about that yet.
GM what do you say about those other outlined plans?
I would be interested in researching some druid spells, especially the one that let´s you convert your animal companion to a small statue and pick it up, if that´s allowed and possible.
Wade you already look like a water vampire ;)
Charsheet updated. Added a saddle, brid and bridle, saddlebags and a brush for the animal companion. No equipment else.
Any language can be learned by a point in linguistics.
We can just learn another sign language though, one more thematically appropriate. Asmodeic sign language?
Since you are in training I think a sign language could be taught/learnt. Thorn could have helped or taught it to you also. Infernal Signing sounds cool.
What did you mean by 'other outlined plans'?
Researching spells costs gold but is doable.
Show me the vamp type Wade and I'll have a look at it.
Well Kana there is the Fey Creature for a start. Let me know if you have any other ideas though.
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pathfinder ravenloft in particular the obyri (day walker) vampire or Penanggalan vampire
Or if you want to stick to paizo, also perfectly acceptable is the Vetala Vampire
The common thread between these three, a lack of fear of the sun, this way I wouldn't slow down the party by being the only one incapable of acting during the day.
Just for trivia, I got that first doc from a different Way of the Wicked game where the DM was offering the templates to his players
Looks interesting. As long as you sparkle in the sun I have no problem with vampires out during the day.
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I really hope that's a joke
I'm not saying this for any twilight hate, I don't really care one way or another about the books and I feel they have their place (the movies I pretend don't exist), but it breaks immersion for me to have these three in particular sparkle
I think it was the Penanggalan one that is undetectable as undead during the day (stuff like bane, favored enemy, holy swords, and smite still work, just not stuff like detect undead)
Cool, I will just put Sign Language down then.
Level Summary
+8HP
+1 Reflex Save
+3 SP + Profession soldier, Points spent 1 in linguistics 2 into Bluff
Feats chosen the believer from our list and a bonus feat I need to choose.
Question, would retraining be an available option. I may consider retraining weapon focus as The Believer, then picking up the Deformed this level and retaking weapon focus as my bonus feat. This would put the progression on track with the vampire feats as they could be taken from level one assuming you had been bitten by a vamp. If thats ok then thats what I will do.
Retrain fee would be 10gp x level 3= 30gp x 5days for a feat. So 150gp
let me know. Thanks.
This is what DM and I came up with:
The Believer
Spell-like abilities up to 4HD(gained at the apropriate HD)
Evil Aura you have an aura as a cleric of an Evil Deity would.
You gain two claw attacks.
The Deformed
Spell-like abilities up to 8HD(gained at the apropriate HD)
SR equal to character level+6,
You gain a bite attack.
You gain +1 Natural Armor.
People have a negative reaction to you. Unless disguised people start off as unfriendly toward you.
The Blessed
Spell-like abilities up to 12HD(gained at the apropriate HD)
You Gain DR 5/Magic
Resistance 5 to Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire and poison.
Fly at your Land Speed with Good Maneuverability.
+2 to two stats of choice.
The Damned
Spell-like abilities up to 16HD(gained at the apropriate HD)
SR equal to character level+11,
Resistance 10 to Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire and poison.
+2 to two more ability scores different than previously chosen.
Smite Good 1/day as a Anti Paladin equal to your HD
The Fallen
Spell-like abilities up to 20HD(gained at the apropriate HD)
+2 to two more ability scores that have already been enhanced by The Blessing or The Damned.
Fly speed increases to double your land speed.
You gain immunity to Poison.
Its a little shy of the the half fiends abitlity boost. The template offers +4 to three stats and +2 to the other three. This is +4 to two and +2 to two. It's weaker than Vampire for sure, but it doesn't have any weakness to it. I can't be held a bay by a holy symbol :) Though you will unkillable unless there is a TPK so there are trade offs :)
Lol yes the sparkling was a joke.
I don't think you should be able to retrain feats given to you by your class Cole.
Fey Creature sounds good, would need some modifications though.
They cannot be lawfull and Kana can´t take another -2 on STR.
On how many feats would you part this up?
I think 5 feats would be a bit much for me, since i want to take leadership and fox form and probably some metamagic feats later.
That´s why i actually find Lich more attractive than vampire.
My other plan was namely taking leadership or monstrous mount at level 7 and getting a hellcat or something similar as a companion.
oh, I said weapon focus, sorry meant the exotic proficiency. I'm a dolt.
Wade the con is not a negative at all, I mean it is for those levels, but you then get rid of a stat and become undead at level 5 getting your cha to HP as well as the toughness for free so one of the negatives is negated. Also undead immunities wich are numorous. I would take the vamp feats in a heartbeat, but didn't wright meeting one into my backstory and thought being blessed by Asmodeus was a cool idea.
The Vamp feats get you:
+6Str,+4Dex,+2Int,+2Wis,+4Cha
6Feats for Free
Domintate
Change Shape
Spder Climb
Energy Drain
Gaseous Form
a +8 Racial Bonus to 4 skills
CHA to HP
Immune to disease, poison, Cold, Electricity, Energy Drain, Fort Saves that don't effect objects.
After listing all this I don't know why I'm doing the other. All this for a few weaknesses and the biggest the DM is ok with us being able to go out in the Sun.
Can the Cardinal summon a vampire for me? The Vamp stuff is almost too good to pass up. Makes me wonder what is in store in the later books if they included this stuff as an option, they must have beefed up the challenges to pose a threat.
Yea the vampire template is kind of what makes me really anxious to find a cool equivalent. Those are some really major stat boosts. If i didn't take a template I would feel gimped in comparison to others that did...
Well the first vampire feat gives a -2 to CON, but you are not yet undead or a vampire, so no hp through CHA. That only comes later, there is some difficult time.
I wonder how these options would look without any stat changes?
Aw Cole, I liked your cool idea. Thorn doesn't have access to vampires but you could always get Wade to bite you when he is 5th level lol.
I dont want everyone to be vampires just because it looks the most powerful. Actually those other versions wade linked lose some things for being able to go out in day, that's the reason i was ok with them.
Isn´t Tyadora a vampire?
So, what just came to my mind:
If some partymembers become vampires or half-fiends, they get huge amounts of ability boosts. That totally changes the balance between party members and we need a way to even that out i think. Else the others who dont do that will feel underpowered. I know that from an old campaign where we had something similar going on.
I´m also unsure how removing the pitfalls like sunlight vulnerability would play out for party balance and other stuff. Just gaining that much power without restrictions is very strong^^
Just mentioning that so we and the GM can keep an eye on it.
@DM: Sent you a PM with an idea I had for a template for Fletch.
Vampires get a lot of cool things, the stat buffs are usually the best of the bunch. I'd say that is half the draw of that template. Without it, they get some very useful abilities and defense still but the drawbacks are that much more sucky and the feat expenditure seems rather bad too. The template I PMed you also would not be worth taking without the stat boosts it gives.
Is a 5 feat investment (that's half your normal allotment over the course of 20 levels!) worth a vampire with no stat boosts? Not sure but I'm leaning towards no.
Nop Tiadora isn't a vampire.
Hmm. You know I was thinking, a normal character (without vampire/fiend/whatever) could still do some epic stuff. Maybe something that would grant a mythic rank?
I think it epic to have you all powerful but different. A vampire with a lich, a fey, a fiend, an animal lord(recent suggestion by fletch), and a mythic hero/villain? Idk but a diverse group is just cooler than everyone being able to do the same thing.
Idk but a diverse group is just cooler than everyone being able to do the same thing.
Agreed.
Just saying. It seems minor compared to the sunlight restriction or sinking a considerable amount of time and money into a magic item.
Also Cole, considered aDeath Knight? If i were a martial i would totally do that.
One thing that could even out the stat thing a bit is that someone else takes craft wondrous items (what i could do too) and makes items for those not becoming a vampire or similar stuff.
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I agree that variety is the spice of life, but mythic is an exception, mythic really needs to be everybody or nobody, I'd be interested in mythic, and I already know how I personally would allocate my first mythic rank if that were offered, I'm not bashing mythic by any means I find the concept but it's a different kind of power that doesn't mix with non mythic.
Would you guys say negative levels or paralysis is more powerful
Bah. Paralysis is 100 times more powerful. I think I would actually add to that ability to only work once a round like lich and vampire.
How exactly would getting 2 mythic levels be so different than a +2cr template like vampire?
Somehow I think 2 levels of mythic is less powerful than vampire template.
Somehow I think 2 levels of mythic is less powerful than vampire template.
Indeed the Vampire is definitely broken, whether you spend 5 feats or not into it.
Anyway, I just came here to tell you that Eryan requires your attention and we're all waiting him to move forward. Thanks ^_^
Mitra will TPK you next time, evildoers!!
Comes down to a lot more ability points and strong features versus some better feats, some hp and some ability points.
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There's still pleanty of variety avalible without mythic,
I'm going vamp (duh)
Fetch could go litch
Cole death knight or half fiend (DR 15/ magic and bludgeoning is awesome, who, other than a monk, carries around a magic blugeoning weapon, not many, a lot fewer than carry magic silver ones I'll tell you that)
Kana maybe animal lord, maybe half fiend
Declan... I haven't heard input from her, I honestly thought she was going for vamp though.
I realy like Grave Knight. I think their flavor is cool. I didn't consider them when I first sent my Half Fiend idea to the DM. I like it as well. Being able to fly as a Martial character is pretty good. The strongest thing about vamps we havent mentioned is they don't die. As long as the party makes it, and you make it to your coffen you will be fine. Also don't forget they have Fast Heal 5 whick I forgot to list. A Grave Knight and Lich are also pretty indestructable. I don't know what the game has instore. I can only hope they did a good job of making the later books still a challenge with these options.
I am in and have played in mythic games. I can't really say if its more powerful, but if done right its veratile
The trick with the current options is the feat tax. I don't know if they work if you don't have that. Sure the Vamp gives you 6 feats in replace of the 5 you spend, but they are average run of the mill stuff.
Ok. Has everyone leveled up and ready to proceed?
Level 3 now yes?
Nope back to level 1 for you sorry.
Jokes. Level 3 it is for everyone. Roleplay is actually waiting for every one to post something in gameplay. Though I will be moving forward regardless in 20 hrs or so
Can i have the animal companion already or do you want me to aquire it somehow first?
Yes, I am all leveled. At RL D&D, will post as soon as I can.
@Kana: I love that your new companion is apparently a druid?