He's still got his reach I assume, and even if we blow up Hastur we have to handle Cthulu and the big monsters.
Right! AoO on Sieg....
Ok, so Hastur is even closer to dead! Holy s+#+....
I'm thinking the KiY is about to start offering wishes in exchange for mercy.... Lol
(As a free action while doing vile stuff to you with his other actions lol)
Lol.... Yup, that's about right, Sersi
Well, there was a lot of damage there that shouldn't be because Sieg couldn't vital strike AND do multiple attacks. Even with Mythic Vital Strike.
I'm not a melee so I don't know if Koran can keep Surging and using his other swift actions.
Surge SU: Using this ability is an immediate action taken after the result of the original roll is revealed.
An immediate action is basically using a swift action on your opponents turn and it takes away your swift on your next turn. Koran surged twice to add to his 1st attack and once to aid a will save? (I dont know what that was for? I think it should have been reflex if it was for the breath weapon)
If Radsworth thought he could control them, he would totally pick up the robes and rock out as the new king.
Okay. That is true about vital strike. So KiY might still be clinging to life after Sieg and Koran straighten up their attacks....
Looks like there might be a few more tricks up those yellow sleeves lol....
Well, there was a lot of damage there that shouldn't be because Sieg couldn't vital strike AND do multiple attacks. Even with Mythic Vital Strike.
Yes I could. Sudden Attack is a Swift action attack, and Amazing Initiative gives me an extra Standard action to do with as I please.
Vital Strike is an attack action, which is why it's incompatible with things like iterative attacks, Spring Attack, Charge etc. (all 3 are full-round actions that happen to involve attacks during them) or abilities taht specifically take up a Standard action ("As a Standard action you may make a single attack and X").
There's nothing stopping me from using it with Sudden Attack and Amazing Initiative, however. One grants me an ATTACK as a Swift action, and one grants me an extra Standard (which I used for the Attack action). Both are valid.
I didn't Charge, then attack, then do something else, I Ran, spent a Mythic Power for Sudden Attack, and spent a Mythic Power for Amazing Initiative.
Also:
Hastur is AC 48, so the first attack misses, but the second--the critical--hits....
The first attack roll is one of two I can make for a single attack (Sudden Attack), so that hits (one attack) and then the second attack should also hit (45 +3 Surge).
In that case, he's still up, but much closer to dead....
Derrik will probably seal the deal on his turn, even if he's still standing after everyone else....
If he gets a chance to act again, he's gonna do scary horror movie monster stuff--hit and run Hastur lol....
Hrmmm I've been working hard so Let me take a sec to evaluate the circumstances
Yeah alot of this fight is incorrect on our side I will tell you so after work in about 7 Hours, Basically the King is Alive and gets to do all the Crazy stuf, Depending on what I Do... He is kinda screwed though.
Alright lets go from the top
Likewise as has been said you cannot Vital strike with Sudden Attack, it is simply another attack, nothing in the description says it is another ATTACK ACTION, which is a standard action; this has been pretty much clarified. Pretty much Vital Strike can only be used when you arent charging and have a Standard, because thats what it takes... a standard.. otherwise you could Cleaving Finish into a Vital Strike or Deadly Dodge into one.. which you cannot. The most you can Vital Strike in a round basically is twice. Once for normal, once for Amazing Initiative. The only class that can do so otherwise is a high level Monk of the 4 winds.
Them's the Breaks Vital Strike got fixed with the Mythic Feat is all, but otherwise it's basically a standard full attack in one shot, maybe.
They both still hit but the damage is all off so that would need to be rerolled.
Well then lets see what I can do, might make it less scary overall if the KiY fails his save.
Big note, the KiY aura says nothing about being immune to it after a save so EVERY ROUND on his turn everyone within 300 ft has to roll it again (I might use this against it).
tldr; Alot of actions were really messed up/didn't happen/were done wrong. King in Yellow is still there and scary as s##+.
Also, Marcus should know the KiY most likely doesnt have a structure.
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Good point, mighty Ruladin. MJ, can we assume I used a move action to fly in closer for the dispel magic? I still had that action to take. Fireball had enough range regardless. So hopefully getting closer to Gojira without getting too close to KiY? Just let me know any extra saves I need to roll.
Also (and I might have missed something) I think the dominate monster on Gojira was just the CL 20 spell from the Kaiju Headband. So I should be able to break that. Didn't our resident crazy man control them with the headband, and then he was controlled by Hastur? But again, maybe I just missed where Hastur put a spell on the kaiju as well.
Now we come to Sieg; First on your damage you indeed have Huge sized Fists.. but those are only when you are Raging and Large. Your Base is 2d8 which because of Titan Strike moves up to 3d8 and then Rage to 4d8, meaning Vital Strike would be 1d2d8 not 18d8. Unless you have something special going on Monastic Legacy only adds HALF the levels of non-monk classes to unarmed Damage Dice meaning you are a 17th level Monk, not 20th.
Blarg. Smaller chart threw me off.
Likewise as has been said you cannot Vital strike with Sudden Attack, it is simply another attack, nothing in the description says it is another ATTACK ACTION, which is a standard action; this has been pretty much clarified. Pretty much Vital Strike can only be used when you arent charging and have a Standard, because thats what it takes... a standard.. otherwise you could Cleaving Finish into a Vital Strike or Deadly Dodge into one.. which you cannot. The most you can Vital Strike in a round basically is twice. Once for normal, once for Amazing Initiative. The only class that can do so otherwise is a high level Monk of the 4 winds.
Them's the Breaks Vital Strike got fixed with the Mythic Feat is all, but otherwise it's basically a standard full attack in one shot, maybe.
They both still hit but the damage is all off so that would need to be rerolled.
I'm trying to figure out exactly what the difference is between an attack and an attack action, because as far as I know there's no distinction ever specified.
There's a clear distinction between a Standard and an attack (a limited sub-type of Standard, in essence), but I don't know of anything that makes an attack not an attack action.
It doesn't work with full attacks because that is a specific full round action (the FULL attack action), but it should work with anything that grants an attack.
The only things Vital Strike explicitly doesn't work with is specific full round actions (Spring Attack, Full Attack, Whirlwind Attack) and specific Standard actions (Awesome Blow or something, stuff like that).
Good point, mighty Ruladin. MJ, can we assume I used a move action to fly in closer for the dispel magic? I still had that action to take. Fireball had enough range regardless. So hopefully getting closer to Gojira without getting too close to KiY? Just let me know any extra saves I need to roll.
Also (and I might have missed something) I think the dominate monster on Gojira was just the CL 20 spell from the Kaiju Headband. So I should be able to break that. Didn't our resident crazy man control them with the headband, and then he was controlled by Hastur? But again, maybe I just missed where Hastur put a spell on the kaiju as well.
Hastur Dominated the all... And thus they are pretty screwed. He didnt put any spell on them either, it was technically an SU ability. Either way you have to get really close
Rynjin, it simply doesnt, Vital Strike is what it is and no better, If it worked as you thought it would work on the First attack of a Full attack or when a Monk spends a Ki for another Attack, Or Haste; Same with Ninja or any other class, the list would continue. The Attack Action is a Standard action. Getting an extra attack just gets you a regular attack at whatever bonuses they allow you. You should know that by now from all the heated talks and the conclusion that Vital strike is generally useless unless you have massive Dice.
Rynjin, it simply doesnt, Vital Strike is what it is and no better, If it worked as you thought it would work on the First attack of a Full attack or when a Monk spends a Ki for another Attack, Or Haste;
No, because all of those things are extra attacks WHILE TAKING A FULL ATTACK.
I know Vital Strike doesn't work with a hell of a lot of things, but I really don't see any reason it doesn't work here. Just because it doesn't work with a bunch of things doesn't mean it doesn't work with this specific ability which say it gives you another attack, full stop. Not an extra attack while full attacking, not an extra attack as part of a full attack or full round, not an attack as a Standard action...just an attack.
Do you have anything you can link me to, discussion-wise on this specific ability? Because I actually think you're wrong on this one.
In the BRB (dont have the page) on the list of actions it specifically lists attack actions.
Further, when you get into iteratives, it spells out how each iterative is an attack step in the attack action.
And in that same first chart - attack action = standard action. It's up to Mikey though I guess if you disagree.
Rad has gone. He withdrew his "secret chest" and retrieved the item from it via the spell. I forgot my elemental though, so there's that.
Lastly, I think the Kaiju can be dispelled.
The professor used his Kaiju Dominator head-band on Gojira and Mosura individually, then he went to pick a fight with the KiY, who.. after re-calling...
Yea, actually, I think they all are Yellow Signed. No dispel magic, but something as easy as Protection From Evil can block the mental control. Until it's dispelled of course.
Rynjin, it simply doesnt, Vital Strike is what it is and no better, If it worked as you thought it would work on the First attack of a Full attack or when a Monk spends a Ki for another Attack, Or Haste;No, because all of those things are extra attacks WHILE TAKING A FULL ATTACK.
I know Vital Strike doesn't work with a hell of a lot of things, but I really don't see any reason it doesn't work here. Just because it doesn't work with a bunch of things doesn't mean it doesn't work with this specific ability which say it gives you another attack, full stop. Not an extra attack while full attacking, not an extra attack as part of a full attack or full round, not an attack as a Standard action...just an attack.
Do you have anything you can link me to, discussion-wise on this specific ability? Because I actually think you're wrong on this one.
Right and it says it gives you an extra attack.. full stop. Ad an extra attack is just another swing while Vital Strike in its OWN feat line says the attack action. These are different things.
I can give you links but Simply searching Vital Strike will give you tons of threads.. Let me list a few.
Here is the Faq for one FAQ
Pretty much every thread says no.. and they would be right to.
Disc1
Disc2
Disc3
In the BRB (dont have the page) on the list of actions it specifically lists attack actions.
Further, when you get into iteratives, it spells out how each iterative is an attack step in the attack action.
And in that same first chart - attack action = standard action. It's up to Mikey though I guess if you disagree.
Rad has gone. He withdrew his "secret chest" and retrieved the item from it via the spell. I forgot my elemental though, so there's that.
Lastly, I think the Kaiju can be dispelled.
The professor used his Kaiju Dominator head-band on Gojira and Mosura individually, then he went to pick a fight with the KiY, who.. after re-calling...
Yea, actually, I think they all are Yellow Signed. No dispel magic, but something as easy as Protection From Evil can block the mental control. Until it's dispelled of course.
Well, can attempt to, you would have to get it on the creature and then they would have to make the save again for the effect to work. You can dispel the Kaiju Sensei sure but the Dominate they are under is much stronger.
2/3 of your threads are about Attacks of Opportunity, and the FAQ is about Spring attack specifically (precluded because it's a full round action, not because of anything else), so I don't believe they apply here.
The only consensus that seems to have been reached is that making an attack is a Standard action...which doesn't really apply here at all considering this is made as a Swift. It seems by that logic Sudden Attack wouldn't work AT ALL.
Either way we decide (which is probably your way), I think I'm going to make a thread for this specifically. None of the precedents are close enough IMO to apply here.
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Well, can attempt to, you would have to get it on the creature and then they would have to make the save again for the effect to work. You can dispel the Kaiju Sensei sure but the Dominate they are under is much stronger.In the BRB (dont have the page) on the list of actions it specifically lists attack actions.
Further, when you get into iteratives, it spells out how each iterative is an attack step in the attack action.
And in that same first chart - attack action = standard action. It's up to Mikey though I guess if you disagree.
Rad has gone. He withdrew his "secret chest" and retrieved the item from it via the spell. I forgot my elemental though, so there's that.
Lastly, I think the Kaiju can be dispelled.
The professor used his Kaiju Dominator head-band on Gojira and Mosura individually, then he went to pick a fight with the KiY, who.. after re-calling...
Yea, actually, I think they all are Yellow Signed. No dispel magic, but something as easy as Protection From Evil can block the mental control. Until it's dispelled of course.
Agreed. Well, we can say Allison went in (fly speed of 60 ft plus 250 ft range for dispel should be enough to have range?) and dispelled the kaiju sensei. Now we just need to figure out how to drop a protection from evil and hope Gojira makes his save.
This way I'm not retconning her turn. She probably would have hoped that would be enough to free the titan and would have preferred not directly attacking either kaiju, so it fits her character-wise.
Vital Strike: That technically doesn't work, but it's actually worse than that. Sudden attack let's you make an attack (with some bonuses) as a swift action so it falls under the same restrictions as combining Vital Strike with Spring attack. On the other hand, Amazing Initiative is a tier 2 base mythic ability that allows you to spend a mythic power point to gain an extra Standard action once per turn as a free action. Therefore if a t2 or higher Champion wants to nova they can burn two points to be able to do two Vital Strikes and a Sudden Attack/Fleet Charge and still have a move action left over.
Protection from Evil: Your backwards here.
There are 2 components to the spell.
1. AC, Saves, Immunity to possession, ignores mental commands.
2. Saving through to remove the effect.
So while I WOULD have to hope the Kaiju fail the saving thrown on Prot Evil, whether or not they pass their save to throw off the dominate has no be
aring on whether or not the spell suppresses mental commands.
James Jacobs: "The PC would still need to make the save to avoid being dominated. If he fails, even though the dominate person spell affects him, the dominator wouldn't be able to control him. If the dominate person spell effect lasts longer than the protection from evil effect, though, then the dominator can immediately start controlling the PC."
The Faq answered many questions at once it just sparked from the question of whether it could be used with those it opened to pretty much anything else, which they nipped in the bud saying Attack action = Standard Action which means getting extra attacks that aren't standard actions dont work. You surely can open a thread but I doubt you will get a different answer. AoO's or not the threads were just random picks. Vital Strike was thought of in Mythic and they limit it by making it twice a round and only really good after some feat investment.. which is fair. I mean really.. i wouldnt care as it doesnt actually HURT my character at all; But the language is there.. There are things that list "attack action" and things that list "An attack", one does not necessarily mean the other.
Vital Strike: That technically doesn't work, but it's actually worse than that. Sudden attack let's you make an attack (with some bonuses) as a swift action so it falls under the same restrictions as combining Vital Strike with Spring attack. On the other hand, Amazing Initiative is a tier 2 base mythic ability that allows you to spend a mythic power point to gain an extra Standard action once per turn as a free action. Therefore if a t2 or higher Champion wants to nova they can burn two points to be able to do two Vital Strikes and a Sudden Attack/Fleet Charge and still have a move action left over.
Protection from Evil: Your backwards here.
There are 2 components to the spell.
1. AC, Saves, Immunity to possession, ignores mental commands.
2. Saving through to remove the effect.
So while I WOULD have to hope the Kaiju fail the saving thrown on Prot Evil, whether or not they pass their save to throw off the dominate has no be
aring on whether or not the spell suppresses mental commands.James Jacobs: "The PC would still need to make the save to avoid being dominated. If he fails, even though the dominate person spell affects him, the dominator wouldn't be able to control him. If the dominate person spell effect lasts longer than the protection from evil effect, though, then the dominator can immediately start controlling the PC."
That is for when you already have the spell up, If you don't then they get a save to suppress the mental control.. it says so right there.
Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person). This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target.
I'm totally lost here.
I'm totally lost here.
It's alright its simple rules discussion it's one of those things where you have to fix it or it might get out of control.. Heck I would actually benefit greatly from Rynjin's interpretation but it also is not the general consensus/written text especially after the FAQ. If it seems good assume its the worst version that way you arent surprised.
When we next level there are alot of small rules here or there that will need to be combed through, but for now it is fine.
Well the closest I got to someone agreeing with my interpretation was Mark Seifter acknowledging it was definitely a "weird corner case" so I'll drop it...for now. MUHAHAHAHAHA.
Seriously though they should better define the attack action somewhere that is not "Random guys on the forums".
They have it in the GMG and other areas its just mentioned like once, which is poor and the only input is Developer on Forum. I agree they Need to fix it.
I will Modestly accept this information you have given. I hope it has improved your understanding and enjoyment of the game. It allows me to make pretty interesting/Fun characters who also function without any loophole or need for the GM to placate me.
Ok, with all corrections made, KiY is still kicking, the Kaiju are both still dominated, and Koran and Sieg are pretty crispy and could use some healing stat....
Dat will save you be needing to make
Eh? You can Run with any move speed you have.
You need a natural Speed to run with it to my knowledge..and by natural I mean not by use of the spell. From what I recall. Also Hastur is not an Evil oustider. So holy Smite does 5d12 +/- your spell affects.
True, he's an evil aberration
So, it takes a great old one and 2 Kaiju to keep the FOs busy longer than a round, huh? Lol.... Still, I'd say you guys are doing pretty well.... You may actually have a shot at Cthulhu if u survive this battle....
You need a natural Speed to run with it to my knowledge..and by natural I mean not by use of the spell. From what I recall. Also Hastur is not an Evil oustider. So holy Smite does 5d12 +/- your spell affects.
Well, s&++. I wouldn't have used Holy Smite if I'd remembered that, it's pretty s@!% against anyone who's not an Evil Outsider.
Ah well. He's still Blind, so that's helpful.
Well you wouldn't know he WASNT ONE.. You would assume he is an Aberration tho... And he actually does have subtypes.. he just isnt an outsider.. so just adjust for the damage.
I'm totally lost here.
No. I mean that I am unsure how to help the party.