Hello players. This is the discussion thread for the Magnimar Special Investigations campaign.
Once I get confirmation from people that they're on board to play this game, I'll be sending permissions to view the campaign google site. This is where we'll keep track of things that happen to the party, and the clues you've uncovered in various cases you'll be on.
In the library, there is a handout called Player Notes. I apologize, it's a bit of a wall of text, filled with background, character creation guidelines, and some new mechanics I'm trying out for this game.
The character creation stuff is buried in that document, so I'll repost here.
20-point buy, max starting hit points, standard rolled starting gold, and either two traits or one of those feats that give bonuses to skills, like Skill Focus or one of the ones that give bonuses to two skills like Persuasive or Athletic.
The main thing to think about with character creation is that, since the party has been selected from a pool, we can discuss character ideas as a group to find a well-balanced group of characters. This campaign is entirely urban, so nature and mounted characters aren't good fits. Welcome all.
P.S., when you do log in to the web site, please add your information under the Contact Numbers tab.
Hello...I've heard we may already have a diviner and an alchemist (and possibly a cleric type). I think I may be leaning toward a bard (detective archetype), a rogue (investigator archetype), or possibly a combination of the two.
That being said, if the multi-class steps on someone else's toes I am perfectly willing to forgo it, and stick with the bard most likely.
Hello...I've heard we may already have a diviner and an alchemist (and possibly a cleric type). I think I may be leaning toward a bard (detective archetype), a rogue (investigator archetype), or possibly a combination of the two.
That being said, if the multi-class steps on someone else's toes I am perfectly willing to forgo it, and stick with the bard most likely.
When we played this type of game with a different GM, my character was a detective/urban ranger, which was a great fit, so those ideas would be fine.
Larry, did the website invite work out okay?
Sure did :)
Hello.
Are some choices already set? Do we need to avoid overlaps? I'm not sure that it matters. I'm confident we could have six bards and still have a lot of fun. Archetypes help even further!
I was wondering if we shouldn't have a look at teamwork feats. They might fight a unit group. Nazard, could we use the feat-instead-of-two-traits to get a teamwork feat?
It's not so much avoiding copying other classes for the sake of everybody being different, but an in game reason. A very competent person has decided to hire six people out of a large pool of first level adventurer types with the goal of creating a balanced team, so he probably wouldn't pick six bards.
As for teamwork feats, I'm open to that idea, but I don't want to dictate details of character creation. I know that sounds like I'm contradicting myself there. I guess my main concern is that the party we end up with is one that would make sense to have been hired in the first place, as this game doesn't start with random travelers in an inn and you get what you get for party make-up.
I was thinking, for example, of Coordinated Maneuvers. If we need to capture suspects, we would probably use some combat maneuvers, in particular trip and grapple.
About the classes, Talomyr mentioned some might be taken. How should we go at creating the party? First the classes, then the rest, or first complementary concepts?
What are the main functions that our boss would want fulfilled? From the shows I've seen, here's what I see. Others could jump in with other ideas:
-Analyzing crime scenes to find clues (magnifying glass, ultraviolet light, etc.).
-Analyzing evidence to extract information (CSI lab tech).
-Interrogating witnesses, getting the barman to tell what he knows, telling that he is lying about his son's alibi, etc.
-Going through the paperwork and the bureaucracy to figure who would inherit, what contract was signed six months prior to the murder, etc.
-Going through all the information available and discern a pattern that points to a suspect.
-Finding the suspect in a big city.
-Capturing the suspect and bringing him into custody.
-Interrogating the suspect to get a confession.
Anything else? In CSI, they analyse the crime scene, do the lab work, carry guns, capture and interrogate the suspects, look good, get to make a little patronizing speech at the end, etc. They are both scientists and cops. I don't think it has anything to do with the real world. But MSI is not the real world. Do we want clear separate duties?
That's what I have so far.
Okay, I can see that my statement about the cooperative party planning is causing some concern, so I'll take one more stab at explaining what I meant.
All of those roles Eric mentioned are pretty much spot on. The group needs to be capable in combat, the group needs to be capable in social situations both friendly and not, and the group needs to be able to find and analyze clues. Therefore, Captain Percival would not have hired six wizards or six fighters. As long as the main D&D roles are covered we should be good. All I meant about the planning the party is that we have a chance that makes sense in a meta-gaming way for discussing what you want to play and how to make it fit with the others, not that you can't play what somebody else is doing.
The MSI group is more like Fringe than CSI in many ways. Magnimar already has a City Watch to take care of regular crime, but a few years back, a cult led by a magical creature tried to assassinate some key folks in the city, and then it was nearly overrun by giants. Only the chance presence of some capable adventurers saved the day, and Magnimar doesn't want to risk needing to rely on passing sellswords to save them. Think of the MSI Unit as adventurers on retainer by the city. The crimes you'll be investigating are the kind that would ordinarily baffle the regular City Watch, or that the City Watch would have to advertise for help in the local taverns for adventurers to come deal with.
Does that make anything clearer? If there are still concerns about stepping on toes, I'll just drop the whole "let's work together to make a party that is really comprehensive" idea. It's not worth losing the fun over.
Super clear (for me anyway)! Thanks.
The Fringe vs CSI also helped me figuring it out.
I'll start working on ideas.
I'm still waiting to hear back from Scipion del Fero and therealthom about joining up. therealthom's last post to the board said he was going to be without internet access until Friday, so he may not have gotten the message yet.
Assuming they say yes, and want to bring their CSI Absalom game characters over, that means we have a diviner, an alchemist, and a cleric so far, so if the rest of you want to start thinking of characters, fighters, rogues, urban rangers, and inquisitors all make excellent choices from which to pick.
I am thinking of a brawler type. The "brains" of this unit...
I'm not sure what classes yet. Thinking monk, inquisitor (of Abadar?), monk/inquisitor...
I am thinking of a brawler type. The "brains" of this unit...
I'm not sure what classes yet. Thinking monk, inquisitor (of Abadar?), monk/inquisitor...
Iomedae would be an obvious choice, though Abadar would work too.
Would you allow fractional BAB and saves if we multiclass?
Would you allow fractional BAB and saves if we multiclass?
You mean, taking a half level in two classes to start? If one of the classes is one that would require a good deal of training (wizard, monk), it usually makes more sense to do that than say that you've finished your training, but don't quite have the spellcasting/abilities yet. For some classes, it doesn't really work and can get easily abused (I'm looking at you fighter/rogue).
I get the fractional saves (+1 to all good saves, then another +1 at next level) but how does a fractional BAB work? 1/2 for full base attack classes and 1/4 for others, added together to get 3/4 which rounded down is still zero. I'm not sure how that helps.
It's usually just easiest to pick one class to start. If you're still thinking your inquisitor/monk, it would be easiest to start with the level of monk, but switch out flurry of blows and stunning fist for judgement, as an example.
Would you allow fractional BAB and saves if we multiclass?You mean, taking a half level in two classes to start? If one of the classes is one that would require a good deal of training (wizard, monk), it usually makes more sense to do that than say that you've finished your training, but don't quite have the spellcasting/abilities yet. For some classes, it doesn't really work and can get easily abused (I'm looking at you fighter/rogue).
I get the fractional saves (+1 to all good saves, then another +1 at next level) but how does a fractional BAB work? 1/2 for full base attack classes and 1/4 for others, added together to get 3/4 which rounded down is still zero. I'm not sure how that helps.
It's usually just easiest to pick one class to start. If you're still thinking your inquisitor/monk, it would be easiest to start with the level of monk, but switch out flurry of blows and stunning fist for judgement, as an example.
It is out of the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana.
Good Saves advance at +1/2 per Level, with the Good Save starting off at 2 1/2 at level 1
Poor Saves advance at +1/3 per Level
Good BAB +1 per Level
Med. BAB +3/4 per Level
Poor BAB +1/2 per Level
The point is to keep track of the fractions, say for instance you start as a wizard, you would start at:
BAB +1/2
Fort +1/3
Ref +1/3
Will +2 1/2
Then for your second level you pick up a level of rogue, your totals would be:
BAB +1 1/4
Fort +2/3
Ref +2 5/6
Will +2 5/6
And for third level you go back to wizard, you would have:
BAB +1 3/4
Fort +1
Ref +3 1/6
Will +3 1/3
Going back to rogue for level 4, you get:
BAB +2 1/2
Fort +1 1/3
Ref +3 2/3
Will +3 2/3
And so on...
Talomyr's got it.
If one goes with Monk/Inquisitor, at level 1/1, you're not stuck with a BAB of 0 (lower than a wizard), but a BAB of 1 1/2, so 1 really (even for flurry, because you're at 1 3/4 then). Multiclassing hurts BAB a lot at low levels.
If it's not possible, no problem.
Nazard,
For what it's worth, the fractional rules work really well. I've been using them in my home game since 3.5 Unearthed Arcana came out.
Oh, that system! By all means, I've always thought it made sense. I thought you were talking about the optional half class system which I never cared for.
Just so long as you're rounding down!
Except now that I think about it, are you sure you have the saving throw stuff right? That would mean that's wizard/cleric wouldhave a +5 will save at second level instead of +4.
As written that is correct. Our group house-ruled that you only get the +2.5 once per save type, so that a wizard 1/cleric 1 would have a will save of +3, which is right in line with 2nd level wizard or cleric.
As written that is correct. Our group house-ruled that you only get the +2.5 once per save type, so that a wizard 1/cleric 1 would have a will save of +3, which is right in line with 2nd level wizard or cleric.
That makes sense to me.
Hello - may I play?
This is Calatin ab'Halla from the CSI Absalom game, known as Pastrybane :)
Hi Calatin/Megan. Welcome aboard!
Did you not want an avatar, or not find one you like? I will be doing combat maps for this game, posted to the google site, and need to have a picture for the icon.
Hey all! Sorry for my tardiness. I've had a busy day.
I'm thinking of possibly a halfling cleric of Pharasma (focusing on the fate/prophecy aspect of Pharasma), possibly aiming for the harrower prestige class. I notice there's already a cleric in the group though, so I'm willing to be flexible.
Actually, I hate avatars!
But if you need one for mapping purposes I suppose I'd better go and have a look... trouble is, I have a clear picture in my mind's eye of what Calatin looks like. Perhaps one of the symbolic ones...
It wouldn't need to be one from the messageboards, if you wanted to send me a jpg I can make an icon out of it also.
There is an avatar of a balding chubby guy (Balabar Smenck, I think) among the messageboards pics, but he might look a bit too mean.
Hullo, I'll be happy to join again. Last time we were level 2, looks like we're starting at level 1? Since we didn't do much I'd be happy to adjust Rufus to fit this group. I need to check Ultimate Magic and see if there's some new alchemist stuff for him as well.
Hullo, I'll be happy to join again. Last time we were level 2, looks like we're starting at level 1? Since we didn't do much I'd be happy to adjust Rufus to fit this group. I need to check Ultimate Magic and see if there's some new alchemist stuff for him as well.
Hooray!! Welcome aboard. I'm just waiting for Foggy's player. If he's a no, would people like to find a sixth or go with five? I'll get you invited to the campaign website in a bit.
By the way, not making us a Hound Master?? ;)
Are we making new characters? I kinda thought we were bringing the old characters to this one?
Are we making new characters? I kinda thought we were bringing the old characters to this one?
You can do either!
Hrmm, if we can make new characters I wouldn't mind trying out the new summoner archtype Synthesist. We just started Carion Crown in RL, and I'm using one there also at first level so it would be interesting to compare and contrast. What races are you allowing? In RL I went with aasimar.
Rather than summon an eidolon to serve by his side, the synthesist fuses his eidolon’s essence to his own. Instead of two creatures, the synthesist is a fusion of the summoner and eidolon into a single being.
Fused Eidolon: A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. Instead of appearing as a separate creature next to the summoner, the eidolon appears around the synthesist, so that the synthesist seems to be inside a translucent image of his eidolon. The synthesist directs all of the eidolon’s actions while fused, perceives through its senses, and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature.
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The
synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks. The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist.
While fused, the synthesist counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist. Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected. Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature. The synthesist and eidolon cannot take separate actions. While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear. In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability (for example, the synthesist cannot use his summon monster ability while the eidolon is present). This ability replaces the class’s eidolon ability, bond senses, and life bond.
The following class abilities function differently for synthesist summoners.
Fused Link (Su): Starting at 1st level, the synthesist forms a close bond with his eidolon. Whenever the temporary hit points from his eidolon would be reduced to 0, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of his own hit points. Each hit point sacrificed this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the eidolon (thus preventing the loss of the summoner’s temporary hit points), preventing the eidolon from being sent back to its home plane. This ability replaces life link.
Shielded Meld (Ex): At 4th level, whenever the synthesist is fused with his eidolon, he gains a +2 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +2 circumstance bonus on his saving throws. This ability replaces shield ally.
Maker’s Jump (Sp): At 6th level, whenever the synthesist is fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can cast dimension door as a spell-like ability using his caster level. This ability only affects the fused synthesist and eidolon. The synthesist can use this ability once per day at 6th level, plus one additional time per day for every six levels beyond 6th. This ability replaces maker’s call and transposition.
Greater Shielded Meld (Ex): At 12th level, whenever the synthesist is fused with his eidolon, he gains a +4 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +4 circumstance bonus on his saving throws. This ability replaces greater shield ally.
Split Forms (Su): At 16th level, as a swift action, the synthesist and his fused eidolon can split into two creatures: the synthesist and the eidolon. Both have the same evolutions. The synthesist emerges in a square adjacent to the eidolon if possible. All effects and spells currently targeting the fused synthesist-eidolon affect both the synthesist and the eidolon.
The synthesist can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to his summoner level. He can end this effect at any time as a full-round action. For the duration of this effect, the eidolon functions as a normal eidolon of the summoner’s class level. This ability replaces merge forms.
Hrmm, if we can make new characters I wouldn't mind trying out the new summoner archtype Synthesist. We just started Carion Crown in RL, and I'm using one there also at first level so it would be interesting to compare and contrast. What races are you allowing? In RL I went with aasimar.
** spoiler omitted **...
Aasimar synthesist is fine, too. It would be good to have somebody who could at least pretend to be a full bab class.
Michael/Navior, by all means, go ahead with the halfling cleric of Pharasma. The more halfling clerics, the merrier after all.
Since it was looking like everybody was going to pick non-martial classes, I had a slightly humourous idea to put in a rather dim-witted, low charisma meat shield mook that gets assigned to help "protect" the unit. They have plenty of those in the literature of quirky serial police dramas. Thoughts?
So at the moment, the party's make-up looks like:
Aasimar? Synthesist (Summoner)
Human Detective Bard
Human Diviner
Human Monk/Inquisitor of Abadar
Halfling Cleric of Pharasma
Halfling Cleric of Calistria (if his player is on board)
Looks like we would be great for divine spells, lots of arcane spells, a few skills with the bard, some good intimidation with the Inquisitor, Diplomacy with the bard and two clerics, and melee power with the synthesist and monk. If I recall, the diviner doubled as the medical examiner last time around, although this time there's nobody examining substances alchemically, although all we'd need is somebody to put ranks into Craft (Alchemy) to cover that. If this is the starting line-up, I'll add a fighter mook. He'll be the strong silent (and dumb) type, there to follow orders and be the first person through the door.
I actually think with 6 people, we'll be ok without a full on fighter or paladin. It might require more caution and coordination than usual, but isn't that a good thing for a crime drama?
For sure, we can give it a go without a bruiser. This is not a combat heavy campaign after all.
Calatin doing alchemy would be great. He can be the brains of the operation as well as its stomach.
Is Calatin a recent graduate of the Stone, or a more seasoned one?
Just an update, folks.
Dreaming Warforged has backed out of our little game, as he got accepted to another PBP. He plays in my Arcadia game, so I promised him lots of level-draining undead as punishment for jumping ship.
Also, I heard back from Foggy's player, though not whether he's in or not. His chatter on his other PBP threads suggest he's quite busy at the moment.
I'll have my chap finished up tonight. Just need to put in a stat block for his Fused Eidolon Form.
edit: Stats are all done, I'll get some descriptor stuff up later.
Hi, guys, it's good to hear from you all again.
I may be busy, but this is too good to pass up. It's the games I DM that suffer most when I'm busy. I may be out of touch for a day or three now and then, but I will let you know when that happens. If you'll have me under those conditions, I'm in. If not, I understand completely. No hard feelings.
In either case I'll look at the revised creation guidelines and try to mold Foggy into shape.
Navior, funny we both have two halfling cleric character concepts. I could switch to the big maybe-not-so-dumb fighter. Then Nazard wouldn't have to give us a mook fighter.
I might quite like a big halberd toting kind of guy. Halberds just say city watch. A poor Cheliaxian with a grudge against the Scarnzi, and by extension a mild prejudice against Varisians in general.
I've decided not to go with the mook fighter after all. Two halfling clerics could be interesting.
On the other hand, the APG did some great stuff for polearm fighters.
Not sure. Could be me, could be Foggy. What do you all think?
Nazard -- you may want to have a look at Heward's traits. One is actually a religious trait, but it seemed to fit.
His starting cash will be : x10 = 180 gp
Not sure. Could be me, could be Foggy. What do you all think?
Nazard -- you may want to have a look at Heward's traits. One is actually a religious trait, but it seemed to fit.
His starting cash will be : 5d6 x10 = 180 gp
You can easily repurpose that trait. Nothing says it has to have been religious serving that made hima watchman.
Nazard,
Time is a bit hard to come by for the next couple of days. How soon do you need me to have Erodel finalized?
Still waiting to hear back from one last invite to make a group if six. Probably won't start the game before the week-end.
That being said, I assume you'll be going with good "face" skills, some stealth and some B&E skills, too? That would cover those necessities for the group. I'll leave it up to you howyour character communicated that knowledge to the Captain when he got hired.
|
"Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."
Hey, I'm the number six Nazard mentioned. I am familiar with some of you already and am honored to have been chosen.
As for character concept, right now I'm thinking a half orc Ranger (urban) with a dash of Rogue or maybe a Fighter/Rogue. My idea is the reformed thug. The character would not be an investigator.
"Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."
Hey, I'm the number six Nazard mentioned. I am familiar with some of you already and am honored to have been chosen.
As for character concept, right now I'm thinking a half orc Ranger (urban) with a dash of Rogue or maybe a Fighter/Rogue. My idea is the reformed thug. The character would not be an investigator.
And then there were six...
Dax, there are some house rules for this game concerning favoured communities for the urban ranger, as I'm treating Magnimar as the entire "game world", and want to give an urban ranger some variety in terms of what parts of the world they know about. I'll add you (and Foggy) to the campaign website and you can find a large document of players notes in the library. The stuff about the different "communities" of Magnimar is a few pages down, I think.
The week-end would be great to start, if we're ready, so let's start seeing some characters coming! :)
There's a spot on the website for people to write up their characters. If you want to use it, go ahead, but I will most likely be checking the messageboard profiles for character info rather than the website, so as long as your information is there under your faces, it's all good.