Jehova's Arena (Test) (Inactive)

Game Master Jehova

So the Macho Man fight is/was pretty exciting.

Indeed, I'm liking it. Some interesting mechanics are going off here and we're seeing more than a couple rounds worth of actions.

This style of tactical play requires some really detailed description and clear statement of everything. I'm finding it a little hard to get used to, but it's fun.

Yep.that's why I do a blue-text mechanical summation for the obvious actions/effects for my opponent. I'm frustrated when I can't make informed decisions against an opponent, and I can imagine my opponents would feel the same.

Hmm. Perhaps we should institute some amount of ruling on exactly what you need to have listed publicly for your character's actions. I'm probably not always the best at noticing when something is vague, because I'm seeing the spoilers/PMs as well as posts, I'll try to consistently look as though I were the opponent and call out vagueness.

Heres' my whack at it.

Open with a Round number entry.

Drop in your narrative text. Obvious actions should be narrated. Spells and spell-like abilities (unless intentionally masked somehow) should be mentioned in a way that your opponent knows that something is happening, and could roll a reactive Spellcraft check to ID it if they can/want to (this should include any obvious effects – spell components or obvious affects of the spell… i.e. someone growing to twice their size). Supernatural abilities probably don't have a tell on their own, so you'll have to be pretty honest about what activating the SU effect requires as well as if there are any apparent affects your opponent could notice. If so, narrate those (i.e. - if a supernatural ability allows you to act as if under the affects of Enlarge Person, it would be obvious that you just exploded to twice your size. Alternately, a Paladin's lay on hands specifically mentions that you have to touch the target, so if you use it on yourself, a quick comment about touching yourself [ non-awkward ] is probably merited).

Then (if you have anything that is necessary/helpful for the Arbiter/DM to properly adjudicate the situation) put a spoiler to the Arbiter/DM. I'd suggest this include a mechanical break-down of your actions as well as any pertinent changes that makes to your stats, abilities, or situation. This should also be where you post any non-obvious actions your gladiator is taking.

If you are needing to make any rolls that shouldn't be visible to your opponent (or the audience), make it in this spoiler.

Then, if you want to do an "Attack rolls" spoiler (since Jehova has said it makes sense for you to be able to generally tell what your opponent's attack/damage modifiers should be based on any obvious attacks they make), put those rolls in their own "Attack rolls" spoiler.

Then, sum up your obvious actions in blue text to your opponent. This should include a summation of your attack and damage rolls, or the results of any skill checks you've made that round that your opponent should know about.

finally, a blue-text "my turn is finished" or "my turn is finished except for some DM arbitration" line is always very useful.

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thoughts?

Ya, I kinda like that format. I also think some kind of posting form or general guidelines should be established for clarity. Not only will it help opponents understand your intentions, it will help you remember everything you need to state clearly, which is my problem to be honest.

So the Macho Man fight is/was pretty exciting.

actually from a rules interpretation it still is going on. though probably not for much longer.

Ya, I kinda like that format. I also think some kind of posting form or general guidelines should be established for clarity. Not only will it help opponents understand your intentions, it will help you remember everything you need to state clearly, which is my problem to be honest.

What would be most helpful?

Like a template page with tags in-place?

Choon wrote:

Ya, I kinda like that format. I also think some kind of posting form or general guidelines should be established for clarity. Not only will it help opponents understand your intentions, it will help you remember everything you need to state clearly, which is my problem to be honest.

What would be most helpful?

Like a template page with tags in-place?

I just need to get used to thinking out and stating every step. I tend to get ahead of myself. I think the general format we have going is working pretty well. I just need to get used to it.

Eben, I think that format looks good, though I might consider switching narrative and GM spoilers (this way if your actions depend on what the results of your rolls were, it flows a bit more logically. Aros, in his match for example, would have had two courses of action depending on the outcome of the rolls, specifically misfire chance).

Anyway though, I think I'll be using that.

Kyrin your up against Macho

Yep, just posted. Makin' my rounds across the threads :P

if I only had the die hard feat Macho would have won. it was a good fight.

now to come up with a 5th level

Eben that's great, at least for now. I'm working on going through this thread and pulling out any changes we've made from the initial rules posting, and stuff that should be added to the final draft.

I think I've got another person I need to build now actually X3 (Well, I've actually made a level 20 build, and just need to stat down appropriately).

It's pretty funny, because this is making me come up with characters that I could really see myself playing in a campaign.

Anyway, on topic, I think we should try out some team fights soon! :P I'm sorta lookin' forward to seeing how they go.

Agreed! Lets do it!

Who's in?

Rolg' in!

Blarnaz and Bruno would definitely be up for that (though not the same fight, obviously)

Blarnaz's post is up.

I may not be the best at the mechanics of this thing yet, but I love coming up with the descriptions that go with those mechanics. :D

Was there a level restriction on team battles? 3+ if I recall correctly?

Anyway, statting differences between levels is simple enough, I think, so Kyrian, Aros, Fyren... maybe Rix even? Would probably all be good for a team fight at whatever level.

If I get my new guy statted in time, he might be available too.

Edit'd

If required I could stat Bruno up to 5, but it may give some things away for future fights.

I'm working on a level 5, with I think some NASTY teamwork comboes. :P

I'm working on a level 5, with I think some NASTY teamwork comboes. :P

I'd be careful on that. I think the idea is that all of these characters should be able to suffice on their own for 1-on-1 battles, with the assumption that if they can't, then they probably won't have made it far. In other words, not building to a specific level.

Of course, if you just mean it'll do better in a team fight, then hey :P

what was the wealth for the level 5? was it 10,500 per the WBL table?

for now I simply level'd Macho man to level 5

but also have another idea in mind

Yes, WBL is 10,500

OK I should get get around 10+ new stat blocks in my Alias before the end of next week... Barring any difficulties with my laptop.

I have a Dwarf Fighter5 that is frightening when attacking... but what is WBL again?

Dwarves seem to be a great choice for this arena for some reason.

I took him simply for the theme... Dwarf Two-Hander. I am being nice as I think it was using the Dwarf Racial Archetype he became even more frieghtening with his Maul...

Though he was more survivable as a Human, Half-Orc, or Orc...

Can we use Orcs?

Can we use Orcs?

Actually on this note, I wonder if we should bring up a question of what races should or should not be allowed? (I already kind of messed that up a little bit, but...)

Anyway, I'm all for letting pretty much any races detailed in the ARG stand, at least. I think the idea behind this arena was basically to see how well people could build characters for combat. Choosing a race that complements the build is obviously pretty important, so I personally think the variety in the ARG is nice.

Admittedly, some of them can be quite powerful, but I'm more inclined to be inclusive on them, rather than vice versa.

Then again, maybe I'm biased, since I already used a Tiefling and a Suli.

We also need to keep in mind that it is also intended to follow PFS standards if I remember correctly. Jehova would have final say as to how closely he wants to stick to that ideal.

Monkeys without climb OP.

The PFS stuff is more being used as a guideline for a strict ruleset (without much use of downtime) than as the basis for what is or isn't allowed. I like the standardized hitpoints, the lack of crafting or leadership, age not affecting scores, and the alternate class abilities that replace crafting abilities (and other stuff that doesn't work well in PFS/arena setting).

Here's a current list of what races I'm thinking are legal, illegal, or that I'm on the fence about. The outsiders are a question, being immune to Hold Person, Daze, and similar humanoid-only spells can be very beneficial, and often comes on top of an already pretty good race. Aasimar, Tieflings, and Suli all have energy resistances and unique effects- Suli can get +1d6 to each attack in a given round, longer at higher levels, resist all energy besides sonic, and have a strength bonus, all in addition to their outsider typing. Aasimar and Tieflings also are above average in racial benefits before taking into account type, with some very good alternate racial features and 2nd/3rd level spell-likes. The other outsiders are less powerful in my opinion, but we may want to restrict the arena to humanoids only, as it's not like we don't have enough races to work with.

Okay, so where are we on this team fight?

Jehova had originally said that would be a level 3 only thing, but then said he (she?) later said that wasn't set in stone for the testing purposes.

I'd like to use Rolg in a 2v2, and I don't want to kick Rolg up to 3rd until Jehova says to. But, if people want to play out a level 3 or 4 team arena, I can do a version of him at that level.

I also have a level 5 concept or two, so if people would prefer to do team arenas at that level, I can finalize one of those characters.

Darkness and, indeed, most of the level 2-3 spell like abilities you reference from Tiefling and Aassimar suck badly. However, their alternate racials are, I agree, sometimes too much.

So the things that look to be immediately out-lawable seem to be:

Energy Resistances
Spell Resistance
Any creature type other than Humanoid
Creatures with native racial flight capabilities
Some spell-like abilities: specific mentions are Darkness, invisibility, Enlarge Person

What else should be on the list?

If this is pretty much it, then you could instead make the Race allowances basically say….

"A gladiator can be made from any of the Core, Featured, or Uncommon races found in the ARG; as long as they don't have any of the following:
- Energy Resistances
- Spell Resistance
- any creature type other than Humanoid
- any native racial flight capabilities
- or certain Spell-like abilities. Get specific approval for any race that has a spell-like ability from the DM (do we want to specifically exclude core races here?)"

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Thoughts?

Honestly it's probably even simpler than that, just "Any humanoid listed under the Core, Featured, and Uncommon races in the SRD, except for Duergar, Strix, and Svirfneblin." That's assuming people seem to think Orcs and Drow are fine, and are alright banning all the outsiders.

There is a Dwarven alternate racial that gives a little SR. I think it would be easier to just say, "no svirfneblin"

I don't see anything wrong with low spell resistance, (Dwarf or Drow levels), but when you're looking at a 50% chance of all spells failing against you, it's less balancing. At a certain point, magic can be very powerful, though I'm really enjoying the martial focus so far, I don't think we've had a caster victory past Kyrian's yet (we'll see how Blarnaz fares).

Aw man, no native outsiders? <- *favorite races, in general*

Well, I didn't think the energy resistance was that big a deal (obviously much less so at later levels), though I admit I hadn't figured in the not humanoid part much. Most of the spell-likes seemed fairly lackluster though (chucked Darkness from Kyrian, asap, and getting to use Daylight or Burning Hands 1/day seems less than overpowering).

Anyway though, if that's the case, I can go ahead and do something with Kyrian and Rix.

Also:

I don't think we've had a caster victory past Kyrian's yet

Kyrian's a little more hands-on than your standard caster.

Incidentally, I have been wanting to try out an actual full caster who is completely focused on the casting in here, to see if I could get 'em through some early fights with how dominating martials are at this level. Maybe I'll stat that up.

Blarnaz is my first caster ever, actually. :P
We do need another full caster to test how the Counterspell mechanisms work in this setting.

Strix flying in this type of setting is not really a big deal.

@ Choon: Oh man, counterspelling? I hadn't even thought of that. It generally seems a bit too situational, but... I suppose if it were to actually be a caster fight, it might actually be possible. Interesting, interesting...

To clarify: the opponents know who the other is before entering the arena, yes? Therefore prepared casters could choose spells based upon prior knowledge of their enemy, yes?

Is Wordcasting Legal?

EDIT: I hate the Alias System.

To clarify: the opponents know who the other is before entering the arena, yes? Therefore prepared casters could choose spells based upon prior knowledge of their enemy, yes?

Actually, I think not. You can change your spell loadout between battles, but last I heard, you should have a default spell-list that you'll use in all battles, without prior knowledge of who you're fighting, to make sure the character can handle a variety of situations. Had to ask that for Kyrian too.

Edit: Unless it's been revised. Obviously, Jehova would be the one to give an official answer :P

well Macho man is ready for another matchup also updated him to level 5 as well.

Jehova: sent you a PM with the stats

If its a discussion, my vote is no customizing a spell list to an opponent. If day treat the fights like you find out who you're fighting only moments before the fight starts.

That'd be like a fighter always just happening to have a Bane weapon keyed to his opponent. But times like a billion.