Do our special items take up less of our WBL? I remember Gabe brought this up, but surprisingly I for the life of me cannot remember your answer.
Speaking of Gabe? What was the in story reason for his disappearance? How should our characters be processing that?
Special items take up normal space in WBL.
You will be learning about Gabe shortly in game.
Also, how much was the discount Malan gave you?
Edit: Another question, how do you guys want to handle the separating from normal WBL with crafting and purchases and whatnot? Spread out evenly amongst the party, or individualized?
Ianna has saved 5000 on her headband.
Toramin saved 450 GP through the discount.
I don't understand the last question.
Let me clarify. Right now you guys are at a net +9724gp over WBL. Do you want to each individually bear the weight of your own changes (for example. Ianna would be vastly over WBL since she does the crafting, while Bjorkus would be behind for the recrafting and legend lore), or do you want to take the total and divide it amongst each party member, giving each person a net gain on their WBL?
If we divided it evenly, each party member (including Ianna) would be 1854.8gp over WBL.
I believe Crafting allows for characters to exceed their WBL. Otherwise, what would be the point of letting it cost half the sell value?
...yes, that's what I'm saying. My question is, do you want each character to be responsible for their own deviation from WBL?
For example, say Ianna crafts an item that normally costs 10k, saving 5k on it. Do you want Ianna's WBL to increase by 5k, or do you want every party member's WBL to increase by 1k?
...yes, that's what I'm saying. My question is, do you want each character to be responsible for their own deviation from WBL?
For example, say Ianna crafts an item that normally costs 10k, saving 5k on it. Do you want Ianna's WBL to increase by 5k, or do you want every party member's WBL to increase by 1k?
It should be member-specific as they are putting the skill points in and whatnot to make it happen.
Dalton needs to make some wedding rings!
Ah, I see.
It's a collective action problem. My initial thought is that since she is willing to craft for anyone in the party it would be simpler to have it be done individually. The downside is that if it were collectively people could spend more on items she cannot craft. (She plans on taking more crafting feats -- Arms and Armor at 7th -- in the future.)
I have a slight preference for individual, but will cede to a strong collectivist argument.
Ianna can aid you in that Dalton. Especially since it is a mission of love.
When Ianna crafts an item for a party member, will you be counting it as their item or her item?
Theirs. So, they would need the liquid capital to get the components.
I’ll post that tonight. I’m going to be flying to the East Coast tomorrow (7/25) so feel free to DMPC Rilka. I may be able to post in the evening. Sunday I should have time to get a post in.
I also think WBL should be individualized.
It sounds like you guys are generally ready to move on. You can finalize leveling up if you haven't. Congratulations on reaching it to the third major arc of Geoffrey's Finest! There will be some seriously large information dumps, a lot of shocking revelations, and entirely new perspectives on what your reality is as Aestherics.
In other words, this kind of posting will have to wait until I'm done umpiring this weekend. Sorry for the delay!
New perspectives? So, we might have reason to believe that they aren't secretly the bad guys? ;-)
I for one welcome info-dumps.
Oh, Ianna should have a 1000 GP Penalty to her WBL since she gave away her armor.
So is Tyrantbreaker shocking now? If so that alone puts Bjorkus a good chunk over WBL.
Does that mean Bjorkus needs to lose something?
So is Tyrantbreaker shocking now? If so that alone puts Bjorkus a good chunk over WBL.
Does that mean Bjorkus needs to lose something?
Third, during the upcoming "Automatic return to WBL because Omen can't track wealth worth a s&~#", Bjorkus should plan his wealth knowing that Tyrantbreaker will be gaining an additional +1 quality to it, making it an effective +3 weapon. Will be explained later in gameplay.
Yes. I tried to warn you :P
New perspectives? So, we might have reason to believe that they aren't secretly the bad guys? ;-)
I do want to try to reinforce that while the Aestherics have their hands in a lot of suspicious activities, their overarching goals are good. While I have no problem with you guys thinking specific characters, even Aestherics, might have a secret not-so-good agenda (*cough* Heff), I want to let you guys know that the Aestherics as a whole are good and they act outside the boundaries of laws for the betterment of all. It's easy from an outside perspective to think they might have ulterior motives, but from the inside after some time working with them, it's clear to see that they are a CG organization that are strictly utilitarian.
Maybe we will see that one day, since it looks like we will be working for them for a while. It's not that I don't believe you; it's that it won't feel true until we see the good. It's one of the show, don't tell story moments. :-)
The sword upgrade puts Bjorkus ~5k over expected wealth by level after all adjustments.
I guess we'll be avoiding anything involving upgrading the thing further.
It's just one of those things where I want to make it clear that your character has seen nothing that would infer that Aestherics are evil or misguided in any way, and I don't want you to go on a bunch of detective work for DM/player miscommunication as opposed to subtle hints and clues. For instance, you guys thought Koriat might be shady because he spoke of the robbery. When you guys said something about it, if it was actually a subtly dropped hint then I would have stayed silent and let you figure it out. But since it was just some miscommunication I rushed to clarify it.
And don't worry, your next job is fairly cut-and-dry compared to some of your other activities (at least the main goal). At its most basic level, your mission will be counter-terrorism.
The sword upgrade puts Bjorkus ~5k over expected wealth by level after all adjustments.
I guess we'll be avoiding anything involving upgrading the thing further.
Heh heh heh heh...
No, I'll wait. You'll learn soon enough.
Can the update be priced at the crafted cost or something? If things continue at this rate Bjorkus will have to abandon all his gear just to carry the sword around.
I totally disagree that our characters haven't seen things that make them question the validity of Aestherics (from Heff, to poor support, to the personality clashes we've endured with the rank and file). Outside of (perhaps) Rilka, none of the characters trust them. In character, Toramin believes that they may be dangerous to the sovereignty of the dwarven people.
This may be "wrong" from the view of the Narrator, but our characters' suspicions and misgivings have been long running, well documented, and emerge out of the story.
But, I do very much appreciate the heads up when when there is a moment of miscommunication.
@Bjorkus - It won't be happening that quickly.
@Toramin - I've said my piece and I won't argue personal interpretations (such as poor support not being a measurement for good vs evil).
Expect posting to kick off hard tomorrow. Lots to do.
Also, what would you guys think of a style change? I'm considering changing my DM avatar. I'd really like to have a Pleroma Aeon but unfortunately I don't think that avatar exists.
It'll take a bit of time to get used to but I don't think anyone minds if you change your DMing avatar.
It'll take a bit of time to get used to but I don't think anyone minds if you change your DMing avatar.
Agreed. You are the DM; it's your call!
Sorry for my absence. Signal was extremely spotty in my weekend location. Posting now.
Literally found a golden dragon skeleton. I was sold instantly.
Should we expect a big post tonight? I'll keep checking the boards if we are.
Yes. I've been working on it for half an hour now. It's going to be large.
Was there more coming or are we good to post now?
All good, go ahead. Whenever I multiple post from different characters, I write it all up at once and post it all back to back in the span of a minute or two so you guys don't have to worry about that.
Okay. I'm leaving work now. I'll get a post up when I get home.
Oooh yeah, I'm loving the new avatar. Definitely sticking with it (at least until a Pleroma one comes out).
Does anyone have some extra coin in their budget they can throw Bjorkus's way? I'd treat it as a metagame thing since it doesn't make sense for Bjorkus's gear to just disappear.
Ianna's budget is simple.
Improved Sanctuary (2000)
Cloak of Protection (1000)
Headband of Mental Prowess and Positive Energy Channeling+2 (13000) (I am going to rename this item Bolka's Tear because that sounds a lot cooler.)
Gold Ring (Bonded Holy Symbol) Free with the archetype.
Ianna's tapped out, but I can lend you some.
Actually, I've reconsidered the sword upgrading with strict WBL. Don't worry about it Bjorkus. You being 5k over wealth isn't game breaking or anything. I'm going to try to be upgrading you guys more fluidly as you progress anyways.
Sweet!
Just to be clear, are you saying the upgrade doesn't count against Bjorkus's WBL or he's just allowed to be the ~4700gp over he is currently?
The latter.
As for the book question, I thought that was more of a funny comment than a legitimate question haha.
It was both.
Heading to bed.
If only the Supreme Court had as much concurrence as the members of the Hand Council. :-p
But I think that captures Toramin's problems with the Aestherics in character and why he thinks they are shady (except for the whole keeping an eye on you for the VotS thing.)
Who watches the watchmen? First the watchmen have to watch themselves.
Just to be clear, you Omen, understand what Toramin has been saying, yes? That he did not ask for all knowledge or all their secrets. That all he is asking is that they do not directly try to manipulate them for ulterior motives and that they explain their requests.
I just want to make sure that it is rhetoric and obfuscation on their part in character, and not that we out of character are talking past each other.
Yes, I've understood what you're saying.
Toramin, I don't know how to proceed. The entire campaign revolves around working for the Aestherics, and I've done my damnedest in and out of character to get you to stop opposing them. I really don't know what else to say. At this point the Aestherics caught you betraying them and you continue to openly oppose them. I don't want to have them wipe Toramin's memory and remove him from the Aestherics, but that's the route you're headed down. This isn't me threatening you, this is me pleading that I want the campaign to continue and I don't know what else you want from me.
Do we have to explicitly trust them for this to continue?
What gave up the jig? Did they have someone on the Voices, or was Toramin right when he pointed out that purging the spies after he spoke to them would only blow his cover?
As for the current impasse, I am a little confused what any of the people have done in character to avert this situation. It seems to me that they are saying, "yeah, we know we look bad, but we are really okay with that and if you don't submit we will do bad things to you and if you do submit we will still probably do bad things to you."
One potential way forward is for them to put their money where their mouth is. Acknowledge that the lack of trust is predicated on absolute secrecy and unaccountability. The sometimes people of good heart can and do disagree. And that trust has to be built.
Where it directly concerns Toramin, perhaps they could explain their requests (but not their overarching secrets) to him and have him directly liaise with the Voices. Both parties could probably benefit from greater understanding and cooperation, learning from each other without resort to espionage. Toramin wouldn't be breaking anyone's trust if he shared mutually approved information to both sides
You tell us out of character that they are a CG organization. The easiest way forward is for them to act like it. Maybe they could value personal liberty instead of threatening it. Maybe they could cooperate instead of dictate. They are setting both the terms and the agenda. Toramin buys into the helping people agenda. He wants to work with these people.
The problem is that none of your players trust them (I cannot imagine Dalton or Bjorkus being thrilled by Toramin's personality being wiped.) , but trust can be built. It will be a slow process. It might even be fitful.
But there is a way forward if the Hand Council wants there to be one. They could make this an opportunity and not a liability if they wanted to.
No, you don't have to completely trust them. But thinking they're the bad guys is just counterproductive to the campaign.
You don't know what gave you up.
They aren't even threatening you. The worst thing they said they will do is wipe your memory and return you to the dwarves.
They did acknowledge that and tried to explain it. I guess I wasn't clear enough.
In my mind, they are acting as a CG organization. I don't know if you and I just disagree on how CG acts or what.
I firmly believe that everything I'm having them do, within reason, is them trying to get you to trust them. We have the same goals. I'm just stuck on what else they could possible say without completely compromising their organization.
I don't know about you, but substantial alterations to my memory terrify me. I wouldn't be Luke any more if you altered too much. I would take that as an existential threat.
In my mind CG organization support roughly in order: freedom (in the positive and negative senses), the flourishing of multiple life paths, and a distant third doing good even when it might upset people but not in ways that violate the first two concerns.
So, far they have been rather liberal with their disdain for the first two principles and seem to have a twisted view of the third that suggests all means are forgiven as long as the end is good. Don't worry all our ends are classified.
It boggles my mind that a CG organization would be so quick to destroy the very conditions of our personalities: our memories. They seem more Hydra than Shield.
Bjorkus, back me up here. I know you have gchatted me about how terrifying you find the memory wipes too.
Would it compromise them to develop (limited) working relationships with the leaderships of other goodly organizations? Would it compromise them to say hey we want you to accomplish X for Y reason (Y does not even have to be exhaustive of all their reasons) let's work together to make sure that X happens in a way that doesn't negate the value of Y? And bonus: since we know Y we can be more inventive and proactive in doing X in a helpful way.
Toramin is very willing to give up thinking they are tyrants if they stop acting tyrannical.
Were I an arbiter in this dispute I would call for a recess and then to speak to both sides privately on what concrete actions they believed they could take to satisfy the other side and what concrete steps they would like from the other side.
Mistrust that was built over months in game (literally years oog) won't be ended from one talk. Both sides need to do something. That takes time and iterated experiences.