is magic balanced in E6?

I am just starting an E6 campaign and had a discussion with a potential player who was concerned with the balance of magic vs might in E6

in essence the player felt that phisical fighters were overpowered in low level bt magic was overpowered in high level.

he questioned how balanced an E6 campaign is since it never reaches the level of Overpowered magic but may not be out of the overpowered phisical combat layer.

I was wondering if any E6 players have any suggestions for this.

PLEASE NOTE: please dont turn this into a rant fest. I personally think e6 balances them perfectly but I am looking for opinions to consider before things go to far

I think that up to 6th level, and for several post-level 6 feats afterwards, it's fairly balanced. However, I think that the further you advance into E6, the more the scales would swing to favor martial characters. There are far more martial-based feats than there are magic-based ones. So a system that halts all advancement other than gaining feats would naturally begin to favor the martial over time.

Playing E6 since almost a year, I wouldn´t say that casters are underpowered. They won´t have as big an impact in the game then in the higher levels, but the spells can still turn many battles. Glitterdust, Web and other area control spells are still very good and being able to Fly or Spiderclimb when nobody else can (because they don´t have items for it) is good as well. You also can use all your spells, even level 1 with saves, because you often will fight against lvl 3-5 enemies, which don´t have all high saves. Also you could choose to take 1 level or some feats to make you able to fight with weapons when you don´t want to cast and still constribute with them.

But what I noticed is that classes that can fight and cast work a lot better. Magus, Cleric, Bard and so on are more capable without specialising a lot. As the ACs and Saves won´t be so high, you still can play a character with str 14-16/casterstat 14-16 and constribute a lot to combat. In high levels the magus I´ve seen struggled to land any spell with an save or hit something without major buffing or using arcanas, whereas the magus I play in E6 can use his spells, his meleeattacks and his ranged attacks almost seamlessly with good chances of success.

I think that in 3.5, that might have been true, but in pf, casters have much more to do at lower levels. The great old one has a good point too, but i think there are loads of useful feats for casters past 6 that you normally cant afford - combat casting, item creation, spell focus, skill focus and so on. I think martials might grow more in power while casters will grow in versatility. Also remember that if magic item power has a limit (such as max 5000 gp items), but wealth still increases, casters will gain as they make more use of low-powered misc items like scrolls and wands.

good points.

do naturally hybrid classes like magus have an effective leg up over the other classes?

I find it approximate. Fighter can take 2 out with cleave. Caster takes out two with a spell. Same same.

At higher levels the warriors have some neat tricks but casters match it. One thing that MUST be kept in mind is the CR of the average man. It should stay constant at 1/2 to 1. Orcs stay orcs. They don't level into ogres just because the characters just levelled. The characters MUST become epic while the baseline threats remain the same. Town guards will stay level 1 warriors. At level 1 a handful. At level 3 a caution and at level 5? They better call the reserve squad in.

Doesn't mean that these foes can't be levened with tougher opponents - guard captain may be 3rd level and have 2 mounted elite (Ftr 2) guards to support the said town guard or an ogre maybe part of an Orc camp but the GM allows the players to become badass.

Food for thought... Weapon prof isn't bad for a level 3 or 5 caster or maybe weapon focus. Why? Because if the baseline stays the same then a level 4 wizard can actually be considered a decent swordsman. Str 12, BAB of +2 and a masterwork blade and they are as good as Bob the 2nd level warrior guardsman. With a Mage armour and shield spell he's as protected as a man in half plate.

Finally stats aren't the be all and end all of a caster. A 16 is enough to get you bonus spells up to max (lvl 6) - DC aside you may as well sink points into making a rounded character other than a weakling fool with the charisma of a rock...

i would say nothing huge at least. The thing is, the higher you level, the more hyperspezialisation is rewarded and the more generalists suffer, especially those that have to choose between roles due to action economy. On lower levels, you have less established tactics and thus have more to gain on being versatile. Still, a magus won't fight as well as a fighter nor cast as well as a wizard, they still have important edges.

In my personal experience from e6, e7, and e8, it's pretty well balanced across all classes (though ive yet to see a summoner)

good points.

do naturally hybrid classes like magus have an effective leg up over the other classes?

More choice and better ability to be a jack of all trades. A magus is effective slinging spells with int 14, and competent at combat with 14-16 Str. Fighting said Orc a level 2 magus can confidently sling a spell with a save DC of 13-14 knowing the foe likely has no more than a +0 or +1 save or swing away with a attack of +3 knowing the AC is likely 15-16

good points.

do naturally hybrid classes like magus have an effective leg up over the other classes?

No. Full Bab classes still have the higher attack bonus, full casters still the higher DCs and spell lvl.

But as I said, you can constribute very well while being a lot more versatile then to other classes. If you play such a class

For example our groups battle cleric: He doesn´t have to use spells at all to fight alongside all the others.

My magus(hexcrafter) took the baseline ranged feats. So now he can fire at range, use hexes close up and kill stuff with shocking grasp spellstrikes.

I think its all in all very good balanced: because feats are something you will have quite a lot of, you can spend them on improving stuff you wouldn´t normally do (wizard with a bow can become quite useful) or you become more or less the ultimate master of your speciality. Both ways work perfectly well.

I would say that BaB doesn't matter that much barring 6th level (and even then it's not the end-all be-all). I think at those levels, proficiencies and feats are more important (and even hit dice matter a lot).

Without easy access to mithril, for example, armor training is so much better.

Ressurection - arcane duellists, magi get medium armour at 7th... Makes a nice capstone ability.