DM Zyren's Heart of Light

Game Master Zyrenity

An epic search for the Amethyst heptagon leads a party of fresh graduates through the northern reaches of Ustalav. Based in Karcau, the party visits places like the dark Castle Jarovich or the dangerous alleys of Carrion Hill.


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Male Dwarf 6 Fighter (Tower Shield)

"Humph...humans.",says at the display of displaced love.


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8

Victoria shakes her head disapprovingly at the mans horrible treatment of the poor girl.


Venture Captain since December 2014

Solaric looks her Grace in the eyes and asks, "Are we ready to end this now?"


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8

"Let us see how this ends, who were the parties to this man and his crime of murdering this poor wretched woman in callous and cruel cold blood; do you not want to know where the real guilt in all this lies? Just as we must take the full confession from the guilty before punishing their trespass, we must equally listen in full to the pleading cries of the plaintiff. That is the law."

"As the final act comes down, you may go to her, or I will... the rest shall walk quietly and confidently to the children, as if fathers come to collect their loved ones. I wager treat the small beasts as children too and treat them as though still alive, and we might just see ourselves through this. Treat them as one group of happy living children, feign your smiles and give them coins or trinkets..."


Venture Captain since December 2014

"As you wish, your Grace."

Solaric watches and waits patiently, absorbing the story as it unfolds. He watches carefully to determine the root and cause of this great tragedy. He seeks to know the truth behind this moving picture.

Sense Motive 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (6) + 8 = 14


Attentively you watch as the final part of the poor woman's story unfolds.

After being rejected by Wilbur's ancestor, the poor woman from Irrisen hides in the area nearby his house. Whenever he leaves it she tries to speak to him and each time he is very concerned that no one, especially not his wife, sees them together. After several of such incidents, the vision shows him meeting some of his friends in his library. They seem to debate something and after some heated exchanges, they have agreed on something.

The vision blurrs again and the next time you see the protagonist, she sells a pendant, a large blue saphire with a white gold chain. You feel that this must have been her last keepsake from her homeland. In exchange for that she buys a small wagon with a white pony. Over the course of the next days she puts a lot of effort into the remodelling of the wagon, in the end its side can be opened to build the stage of a puppet theatre.

While she entertains the children of Karcau with her puppet shows, there are now always some of the men from the library-meeting hiding nearby, spying on her from hideouts.
It's a winter evening when Mashja does her last show of the day inside a small storage hall. Outside the wind is howling, but the seven kids sitting in front of the wagon watching her show, seem totally spellbound by the small colourful puppets.

Outside, four dark figures sneak along the walls of the hall. Then suddenly they take out orange vials and pour their contents over the hall's walls and light them. Even though it must have been very cold on that night, the walls are conflagrant in no time.

Inside Mashja notices the danger far too late. She takes the children by their hands and runs with them to the door, but as she pulls it open, she faces the four men, masked and with swords drawn. They force her back into the hall and barricade it...the last "shot" of the vision is the burnt-down hall. Only black scorched ruins remain, Mashja and the children must have died in that fateful night. In front of the building the men from the library can be seen amongst many other spectators, without saying a word they nod to each other and leave the scene.

The vision flickers and disappears and you can hear the attic whisperer's sobbing like little children. The human children caress their cheeks and embrace them to solace their undead friends.


Venture Captain since December 2014

"By the light of the Inheritor, those wicked men must pay for their treachery!"

"Will you join me, your Grace?"

Solaric sheaths his longsword and offers Victoria an arm as he prepares to step forward and speak to Mashja.

Addressing his friends, he whispers, "No weapons for the moment as we try and bring healing to their tortured souls!"


M Chelish Fighter

"Hmmm, the waifs could be the little burned children. A sad story, but it's time their spirits moved on. They're starting up with that sobbing again. Let's move in."


Venture Captain since December 2014

Solaric walks up to the front of the stage with the beautiful Countess Victoria on his arm ( assuming she is willing ) and addresses Mashja, and all the children.

”Lady Mashja! Be still and listen to me! I am Solaric Zekkaran and this is the Countess Victoria. We are Karcau's Chosen and we have bared witness your story. The time has come for us to free your soul! You and the children have suffered long enough! It is time to let go of this realm and put your soul to ease. Let us help bring justice to this land and bring healing to you and the children. Speak now and tell what will restore the balance!"

Diplomacy 1d20 + 13 + 2 ⇒ (8) + 13 + 2 = 23


As you approach the stage, the sobbing ends and humans and undeads timidly huddle together.

On the stage, the faint translucent image of the woman whose fate you have just behold, materializes.

She looks at you with somber eyes, a single tear running down her cheek.

I did not want to harm these children, I just wanted them to see what their forefathers did to me. They called me a whore and a witch, but I was just a woman in love. I didn't want to cause harm and even though I had forfeited the idea of living with Vyntra, they came and killed me and some of Karcau's children. Now I want my name and honour restored. They buried my remains underneath the old guest houses, but I long to return to the soil of my homeland.

Her voice is melodious, but so sad that it gives you the shivers.


Venture Captain since December 2014

"The story can be retold. The villains can be brought to justice and your name and honor may once again be restored. Your remains can be brought to your homeland and perhaps then, you may once again know the peace that you so richly deserve! Tell us more of your homeland and of your family. Where do you desire your remains to have their final resting place?"


My homeland is where there is eternal winter, where trolls, worgs and snow goblins strive across the icy plains. Where rime and frost rule and the capital is Whitethrone. There, amongst my sisters I want to be laid to rest.


Venture Captain since December 2014

"My Lady Mashja, my heart is filled with sadness, having seen and heard your story. Whitethrone is indeed far away from here, but I will personally retrieve your remains and see that they are returned to your wintry homeland. I must also humbly ask for your forgiveness for drawing my sword upon your whispering children. Their end was tragic and my own ignorance caused me to strike at them. I now understand their pain and suffering. If you tell me about these masked men who committed this heinous burning, I will seek justice and see they are held accountable for their actions. I will also see that your tale is known to the people of Karcau. I only ask that you please let go of these living children of Karcau. These little ones need to return to their homes and their families. Please . . . release them now."


Male Half-Elf Wizard/9

Johenric observes the complete situation very interested.

Fascinating! This is why I love to be a Wizard and a historian being able to see the overlaying pattern. There are so many facts we do not know and magical riddles waiting for us to be solved.

Johenric moves 10 Meters toward the scene and casts detect magic.


The ghost smiles warmheartedly

The children...or what is left of them only tried to defend my remains when you came to the guest houses. Neither you nor they are to blame for the things that happened. Once I will be put to rest, they will also find eternal peace.
Those that were responsible for my grim fate are dead now, but maybe their descendants can partly be held responsible for their forefathers' doings. In Irrisen the tradition in such cases forces the descendants to compensate...I'm dead now, but maybe they could be persuaded to make a donation to a temple or orphanage.
The children are free to go, I think I haven't scared them too much, children see with the heart and I think they understood that no one wanted to cause them any harm.

@ Johenric:

There are several strong necromantic auras around the ghosts and whisperers, besides that the stage is steeped with an aura of phantasm and illusion.


Kirk eventually follows Solaric and Victoria in approaching the stage. "I'm glad the children are safe. We usually aren't such a forgiving lot, but I'm glad we can understand the whole situation now," he says.


Male Dwarf 6 Fighter (Tower Shield)

"Dead or alive is of no consequence. Dwarves hold each other resposible for generations. They will make a donation as compensation. Worry not, northlander."


Venture Captain since December 2014

Solaric extends his hand and calls to the children of Karcau, offering to bring them home.

Uses touch of Glory (+2 on the next charisma check)

"Come, little ones. It is time for you to return home and see your parents again. No harm will come to you."

Diplomacy 1d20 + 13 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 13 + 2 = 21

Mashja wrote:
"Those that were responsible for my grim fate are dead now, but maybe their descendants can partly be held responsible for their forefathers' doings. "

"Lady Mashja, I am called to bring justice to this land. Tell me the family names of those who are responsible for burning you and the children. This is a story that needs to be told to their descendants, regardless of how painful it may be. Are they the ancestors of the parents of these children?"


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8

"There we go. Now lets us ensure a suitable end to this sad story."


The living children come over to you, but wave Mashja and their undead friends goodbye and seem a bit disappointed that they have to leave them.

While you already turn to leave the hall, Mashja addresses Solaric for a last time

Yes, their parents are the descendants of those people who wronged me. I trust you that you will do the right things.


Venture Captain since December 2014

"I will do what I can, Mashja. May you rest in peace!"

Solaric guides the children out of the theatre and addresses them kindly.

"Are you all ok, my little ones? Are any of you hurt at all?"

Turning to his companions, he suggests. "Well it is certainly late, my friends, but our night is not over yet. We need to return these children right away. However, we also need to need to help the parents understand what their ancestors have done, and why their children were abducted. I am sure the parents will be overjoyed at the return of their children, but they may have trouble hearing the truth. Perhaps we should split up again into two groups and return them to the houses we have already visited."


The children are still a bit confused, but they all are able to confirm that they are well and unhurt.


Male Half-Elf Wizard/9

For me this situation is very strange. I might miss information, because it appears to me that I do not know the complete picture you might have...And do not get me wrong, I do not want to be the grinch and for sure I respect Iomedae for representing the good ....But I have some points to make: First, I think it was good that the situation was solved without conflict. Second, how do we know that the story we have been told is the truth? And thirdly, assuming the story we have been told is truth, me personal....I have strong reservations if an individual should render an account of the deeds of his ancestors.

Johenric does a short Break and it is obvious that the following words do not leave his lips easily.

For sure I do support to bring back the kids to their parents. But it is against my understanding to call an individual to account for deeds the individual did not do. To me, I judge a person not by deeds being done within his family tree in the past, I judge the person standing in front of me by his own deeds!

Johenric lowers his gaze to the ground and shakes his head...


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8

”You have not missed anything Johenric. There is no great tapestry into which this weaves, or not one of which we are presently aware...however as our morality dictates, we were compelled to step in and help rescue these children. Whether or not it brings us closer to the Heptagon is of little consequence as we cannot use our quest as a reason, no matter how well intentioned, to step away from doing the right thing. “

”I would also say I half agree with you about ancestral debt. Unfortunately we are in fair Karcau where the view differs greatly. I am from the aristocratic line where everything is inherited – the good and the bad. Similarly the Sczarni carry debt, or rather blood-feuds, for centuries. The children were stolen from the wealthy Patricians who similarly transfer their heritage from generation to generation. I feel it would be right for them to say they want no part of the bad history only if they took no profit from the good.”

”Regardless, their merchant houses must now bear the cost and debt they have incurred, just the same as if they had defaulted on credit over goods and wares. I will see to a contract being drawn and they can simply pay the sum stipulated. Of course they can refuse, but the next time their children disappear it will probably be permanent”

”Oh and with regard to the woman and her suitor; for once I partially hate being right”

The sum I am arguing for is the price of a decent coffin, transport, and burial in Icethrone; and the cost of buying a small building and fit out for an orphanage. Similarly, they will ‘volunteer’ to be patrons to a school for street theatre performers – though a sum of only 500gp should be sufficient donation/seed money to make this happen...more details on that once it has been bled out of them


Venture Captain since December 2014

"Indeed Johenric, her Grace is correct. We have not lost sight of the heptagon by any means, but in all good conscious, we could not turn a blind eye to the children of Karcau. Who knows, in the end good may come of it yet. "

"I know you were questioning the truth behind her story. I am glad to have you question it, my friend. However, in this case, I am certain she was correct. Master Vintra also spoke of the affair and the pieces of the puzzle all fit together. This would be a difficult tale to fabricate."

"With regards to the inheritance of debt from the ancestors, it does sound rather Drow. In my childhood home in the Darklands, every member of the Drow house contributed to our overall status. The success or failure of the house was shared by everyone's actions. Certainly the actions of the ancestors held great significance for the later generations. It was not until I came to work with all of you, that I began to be judged by my actions and not the color of my skin that I inherited from my father. However, still to this day, it is not easy for a stranger to look at me and completely trust me. My heritage still holds a great weight in their eyes! I am glad to have been able to break many of the chains that have bound me to that evil fate!"

"So if it is all right with you folks, we should be getting these children home. Let's make our way to the marble district at once!"


"Hey Pitr and Solaric, should we give that jeweler a follow-up check in, or bag that investigation now that we've found the children?"


M Chelish Fighter
Kirk Spearborn wrote:
"Hey Pitr and Solaric, should we give that jeweler a follow-up check in, or bag that investigation now that we've found the children?"

"I think just getting the kid back is enough, but if Elkoran is interested in following up, I wouldn't mind setting straight a shady jeweler. So... did we just volunteer to drag a corpse up to Irrisen?! What are we now, Dead Dames Delivery Company? I still have business to attend to here in town!"

no worries taking back the Elkoran and Victijan kids. those were the two we had, right?


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8

"Johenric, please just make sure that the line "Where sun and moon collide, water forms fluids to solid stones and mist enshrouds the slopes of a crowned stone" doesn't actually refer to Irrisen"


Male Half-Elf Wizard/9

Dear Countess, I studied the heptagon about 2 days now. The analysis brought this riddle to light. But unfortunately the heptagon holds no further clue about the solution of the riddle. I am thinking about it, but as long as I do not have a solution, I suggest everybody's mind is working on the riddle.


I need a bit more info: When you now return the kids, do you demand that the people pay directly something, or how are you going to organise that?


Male Dwarf 6 Fighter (Tower Shield)

I'd say due to the fact Paladins are more or less extensions of the law, that ol' longwind, Harl, and Vic should return the children and have a"sit down" with them at that point. Sins of the father and all that."


Venture Captain since December 2014
Kirk wrote:
""Hey Pitr and Solaric, should we give that jeweler a follow-up check in, or bag that investigation now that we've found the children?"

"The actions of the jeweler certainly did not seem the most honorable, but if the item in question is returned to its owner, I don't have interest in pursuing the matter. Perhaps we could mention it to Dumitru. However, I otherwise consider the case closed."

Turning to Karcau's chosen, Solaric addresses his friends,"I have been thinking about this matter of justice a good deal. What do you think of the idea of bringing all of the parents here to this old theatre? They may be reunited with their children and hear the tale of their ancestors all together. This may bring them the comfort that they are not alone bearing the responsibility. Furthermore, we would only need to explain this to them but once."


Male Half-Elf Wizard/9

I like the idea to bring the parents to the kids, as this gives each family the chance to make up their own mind about the complete story. With such approach each family can decide on their own how they want to deal with the accountability of the ancestor deeds.


M Chelish Fighter
Solaric wrote:


Turning to Karcau's chosen, Solaric addresses his friends,"I have been thinking about this matter of justice a good deal. What do you think of the idea of bringing all of the parents here to this old theatre?"

"I'll leave it up to you. Now that the kids are safe, I've still got to deal with that one-eyed snake, Severino, and don't try to talk me out of it, Countess."


You have been discussing outside of the hall for several minutes now, as you suddenly notice the flickering lights of torches: A patrol consisting of four guards approaches, looking curiously at you and the kids.


Venture Captain since December 2014

'Well met, guards of the city! I am Solaric Zekkaran and we are Karcau's Chosen. We have rescued the abducted children. Could you please go to the Marble district and send for the parents. We need them to come at this time! Dumitru has the names and addresses. We will wait for them here with the children."


The guards furrow their brows and exchange surprised looks, but then one of them remarks

he speaks the truth, he is the dark priest of Iomedae. Some "ahs" and "ohs" ensue and the guards relax perceptibly.

Good that it's you sir. We have orders to look out for assassins. A nobleman from Taldor was killed in a nearby inn and we think the murderer might still be around.


Venture Captain since December 2014

"Thanks for the warning, my good gentlemen. We will keep an eye out for any such assassins."


Male Dwarf 6 Fighter (Tower Shield)

"Assassains....Humph. Scared to face a dwarf face to face I'd say. Remind of some other types I've known.", he says in that strange dwarven humor that is, at times, offensive to thinner skinned individuals while slapping Solaric on the back.


M Chelish Fighter
DM Zyren/ Heart of Light wrote:
Good that it's you sir. We have orders to look out for assassins. A nobleman from Taldor was killed in a nearby inn and we think the murderer might still be around.

"Wait! What did this nobleman look like? My father is visiting from Taldor, although I don't know if I'd call him a nobleman."


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8
Solaric wrote:
"I have been thinking about this matter of justice a good deal."

"I am less concerned about justice per se, and more concerned with reparations for damages. The most important thing is law and order, and for these to be those elements then fair payments must be levied against the houses of these Patricians, and I think I am being more than fair in my estimations. These Patricians need bear only the cost in coin, and they have those in abundance, if they were really bearing the full punishment due to their ancestors then they'd be gibbeted at the gates of the City. Frankly I think they got off quite well. They simply pay the fine and the problem goes..."

Pitr wrote:
"I'll leave it up to you. Now that the kids are safe, I've still got to deal with that one-eyed snake, Severino, and don't try to talk me out of it, Countess."

"I'd never talk you out of it Pitr, I'd only ever urge caution that you ensure your friends and loved ones were protected from his evil machinations. No doubt you have this in hand... I stand ready to assist you at your request, I can write a contract for the Patricians later"

Guard wrote:
"We have orders to look out for assassins. A nobleman from Taldor was killed in a nearby inn and we think the murderer might still be around."

"Where did this happen? Who was slain!? In which Inn!?"


Venture Captain since December 2014
Victoria wrote:
"I am less concerned about justice per se, and more concerned with reparations for damages. . . . They simply pay the fine and the problem goes..."

"Your Grace, I have to believe that the murderers of Mashja and those children met their justice in their afterlives. In regards to the descendants, perhaps paying reparations may be the best we can ask for. However, I hate the idea that they are simply paying a fine and their problem goes away. I wish they could actually look upon Mashja with compassion and be moved by their own choice to give to an orphanage. Perhaps they will become sponsors and great financial supporters of their own free will, without being coerced into reparations. Do you think they will listen to Mashja's story with compassion and be called to help others?"


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8
Solaric wrote:


"I wish they could actually look upon Mashja with compassion and be moved by their own choice to give to an orphanage. Perhaps they will become sponsors and great financial supporters of their own free will, without being coerced into reparations. Do you think they will listen to Mashja's story with compassion and be called to help others?"

"And it would give me delight if they did indeed reflect upon the sad tale and voluntarily come along with payment out of a sense of decency. I cannot insist on decency though, I can only insist on cold letters of contract and demands for compensation. Perhaps your silver tongue shall warm them like small flowers turning to the sun and opening their petals, otherwise it will be me with letters of demand and the promises of the fiery Abyss"


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8

Summary of demand:

The families are to ‘donate’ funds and assets for;

Removal of any locatable remains of Mashja and the children.

Modest coffins and accoutrements for all bodies located.

Shipping of the corpse to Irrisen

A reasonable burial site in Irrisen per Mashja’s request.

Modest burials of the children located.

The purchase of a modest building fit for an orphanage of around twenty children. Salaries and wages one skilled worker and four unskilled workers for two years.

Five hundred gold for a ‘School of the arts’ teaching puppetry and circus skills, this to be run out of the orphanage building, notionally to provide the children entertainment, some minor funding for the orphanage, and a low cost school for those wishing to learn the ‘arts’.

Victoria is to be the ongoing ‘Patron’ to both charities to ensure they are run properly and can provide for themselves once the grant money expires either by funding it herself (she has deep pockets) or by attracting donors, and she will equally be responsible sourcing key staff.

The Orphanage is to be named ‘Countess Sassandra’s home of Mercy’ in honour of her pending visit; The theatre school is to be named ‘Mashjas Gift’.


Divine Gamemaster of the Abyss and below...

The guards think for a moment, obviously they don't recall all details easily

It was a Severus...no Severiko, umm nae...uh yeah, Severino, a one-eyed cpatain of the Taldan navy I think. Killed in some high class inn close to the opera. You know anything about that and sorry sir if that is uh was your father.


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8

"How shocking! How was he killed, is there anything we should be on the lookout for? Were there witnesses? Was anyone else hurt?"


Male Half-Elf Wizard/9
Victoria wrote wrote:
"...I can only insist on cold letters of contract and demands for compensation..."

Victoria, Solaric, I know you are honorable individuals and you would pay in such situation. I am sorry, my point of view is clear: even if there is a law for this, what I doubt by the way, I will not led somebody force the families to pay for deeds not being done by them. Who am I to decide if a compensation should be paid for something not being done by the same person? What if this person did in fact a lot of good deeds but they are not recognized by us? For me the persons living today are innocent regardless of what has been done in the past by their ancestors. Therefore, in this situation: every being must have the freedom to decide how they want to deal with this situation.

Victoria wrote wrote:
"How shocking! How was he killed, is there anything we should be on the lookout for? Were there witnesses? Was anyone else hurt?"

This surprises me; I guess I miss something here. Which connection exists between you and the person being killed?


Female Tiefling (Succubi) Witch HP:57/57, - AC: 11/T:11/FF:10 - Percep: +15(Dark Vision) F: +3/R: +3/W: +8 - CMB: 3 - CMD: 14, Speed: 30ft, Init: +1 Witch 8

"Johenric we will see what they have to say for themselves. The charge rests with their houses, not the individual, so good deeds on the persons behalf mean little. To be honest and realistic, should they not pay then Mashja will simply return and suck the life out of them."

"So either they can pay freely, or pay begrudgingly, but they will pay. In all fairness they should also thank us for keeping their dirty little secrets and not spilling this scandal"


Venture Captain since December 2014

Victoria, your compensation ideas look great!

"My good Johenric. You are ever so rational with your logic. I very much appreciate your input. As I think about it, the price we are asking the families to pay is very much the conditions that Mashja has come up with in order to let go of her life here in Karcau. If for no other reason, the families will want to keep their children safe and ensure that they are not taken away again. If they have the money, I have no doubt they will willingly give it. However, if for some strange reason they choose not to pay, then they have chosen their own greed over the life of their child. My only concern would be if the families cannot afford to pay, in which case, I think Lady Mashja would need to be compassionate, especially if the families are giving according to their ability. Let us see what will come of this meeting."


Male Half-Elf Wizard/9

I have the bad feeling what I am going to ask now will not unite our points of view, as I had a question popping up in my mind: is it right that innocent people and especially kids are threatened by a someone? I say no. Take the assassin for example. He killed a person. Maybe he killed the persons because of deeds being done in the past. But is there any reason justifying the present deeds of a murderer? Why do we protect the interests of Mashja? She is threatening innocent persons....

....and to be honest with you Victoria: why do you think Mashja has the right to do the things she did? Would you not consider kidnapping as an evil task?

Johenric does a short break.

Solaric, you are a representative of Iomedae: is it from an moralic point of view right to threaten families and kids? The reasons mentioned by Mashja are those justifying kidnapping? The more I think about it, the more it gets obvious to me that the families need our help, not Mashja.

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