Hey,
Coming from Savage Species is a group of Templates, including "Feral Creature"
I know we can make house-rules about the whole book, but I wanted to bounce a particular question on these boards.
For a +1 LA, this template gives some fixed bonuses, as well as HD-dependent abilities (pounce, rake, fast healing, etc).
Several web pages seem to indicate that a character made with this template gains these abilities as he gains levels.
But the "HD" part could also be interpreted as "HD gained before starting play" as in "monstrous HD" for instance.
Thus, whatever class levels they may gain afterwards, a "feral" human wouldn't gain any of these abilities, while a "feral" centaur would gain those listed for being a 4 HD creature.
I might be persuaded either way. What do you think? Have you played it or seen it played?
Hit Die is Racial Hit Die + Class Hit Die. It's a progression table.
Oh, and Feral is freakin ridiculous for +1 CR. As it's a progression table i'd give it the same CR adjustment as Half Celestial or Half Fiend. It's at least +3 CR. Here's a great take on that if you want.
Normally it would be racial HD + class HD to determine your abilities. Templates that only refer to racial HD actually say that in their descriptions.
Of course, reading the text of the "Special Attacks" section, it does say "It gains the special attacks indicated in the row corresponding to its monster Hit Dice" so you could argue that this particular template should not include class HD to determine special attacks. The same text is not found in the "Special Qualities" section, however.
In any case, the Feral template is pretty overpowered for a PC, no matter whether you include class HD or not. Most templates have higher LA than CR-adjustment, but this one has a CR-adjustment from +1 to +4, while the LA stays at +1 throughout. I'd just disallow it for PCs, or increase the LA to +3 or thereabouts. You should also consider the ramifications of having a character with a feral, uncivilized outlook in the party before allowing it.
Thanks for your answers. That's kinda like what I thought.
For the moment, I'm neither playing one nor GMing one. If I was GMing one, I'd make sure to have situations where civilized play is important. If I was playing one, I'd try to be prepared for my GM to throw these at me.
Although, the character idea prompting this thread was fully into the savage/feral spiel: Feral Creature template + Druid (Shapeshifter) + Fist of the Forest PrC. With low Charisma anyways. Race to be determined: following the previous posts' conclusion, a race with some monstrous HD would be interesting here. For the fluff, I was thinking about a feline-like Anthropomorphic Animal (Savage Species, again), but these are way overpowered, even without Feral Creature.
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One of the Alternate Class Features the 3.5 PHB II offers to Druids is Shapeshifter, which says that the first form available is generally a "wolf or panther" but the druid can choose a form "appropriate to the setting/context" and also that the "size doesn't change" (quoting approximately, here).
1) does that mean that the druid can change the shape at will, changing from an appropriate form to another?
2) does that mean that the druid can choose "pony" to enter cities (with his party) without raising the alarm? Dogs seem out of the question since they aren't Medium creatures...
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1) Yes. But it's wolf *or* panther, depending on the terrain that you're used to. ie. jungle - black panther; tundra - white wolf. When you get to Druid 5 you can also assume an aerial form specific to your home terrain. You can shift from panther to eagle without shifting to human (or whatever) first.
2) Yes, if that's your chosen animal. Or you could just revert to normal form.
1) Yes. But it's wolf *or* panther, depending on the terrain that you're used to. ie. jungle - black panther; tundra - white wolf. When you get to Druid 5 you can also assume an aerial form specific to your home terrain. You can shift from panther to eagle without shifting to human (or whatever) first.
2) Yes, if that's your chosen animal. Or you could just revert to normal form.
Do you infer that the form is always the same? Once chosen, it's done? I was thinking that you could change your form depending on the context (as in "we enter a forest, I switch to wolf form; if we enter a jungle later, I'll change into a panther then").
Side line, I was wondering why you keep posting these in the Compatible Products from Other Publishers forum? This area is specifically for folks to "Discuss products by publishers other than Paizo produced under the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatibility License." Your Importing from 3.5 questions are much more appropriate in the Conversions forum, and you'd likely get more responses there...
Thanks. I thought this was for "compatible products" in general, which means 3.5... normally.
Do you infer that the form is always the same? Once chosen, it's done? I was thinking that you could change your form depending on the context (as in "we enter a forest, I switch to wolf form; if we enter a jungle later, I'll change into a panther then").1) Yes. But it's wolf *or* panther, depending on the terrain that you're used to. ie. jungle - black panther; tundra - white wolf. When you get to Druid 5 you can also assume an aerial form specific to your home terrain. You can shift from panther to eagle without shifting to human (or whatever) first.
2) Yes, if that's your chosen animal. Or you could just revert to normal form.
That's how I read it.
Yeah , that template is not a +1 if you base it on class hd instead of racial. It is a serious power boost for a character. Seen it in play, would not recommend it.
+1 played it, and seen it in play.
Go by the CR and leave it as that. That is more accurate.
What? ?_?
I am confused as well.
What? ?_?I am confused as well.
Best guess: calling BS on feral template being a massive LA.
I am now reading these posts with the imagery of Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff in mind. I can't help it. :P
I've run it where if you want to use it you only get the abilities if you take the racial hit dice of your appropriate type, turns it into a pretty amusing class. AKA you can be a Fighter 4 / Monsterous Humanoid 6 and have the abilities of the Feral Template listed for up to 6 hitdice
I've run it where if you want to use it you only get the abilities if you take the racial hit dice of your appropriate type, turns it into a pretty amusing class. AKA you can be a Fighter 4 / Monsterous Humanoid 6 and have the abilities of the Feral Template listed for up to 6 hitdice
I have played it where you use class and race hit dice, and yours sounds MUCH more reasonable. However this was in 3.5. Current pathfinder rules, this might be different.
Using a flat +1 CR through all the levels might not be such a bad idea.