A fairly common house rule. Otherwise you have the situation of someone who's completely surprised and unable to act having a full reflex and someone aware but tied up completely unable to react. The -dex to reflex when flat-footed simulates that you're more likely to get hit when you don't expect than when you do.
I've always played with the loss of dex to reflexes while flat-footed. I had no idea it was a house rule (maybe it's a carryover from a previous edition? All of my DMs have been playing since at least advanced, at home tables) It's honestly a really, really harsh thing for a trapfinder who didn't find the trap :p
Whatchamean?
Improved Evasion against a 20' fireball inside 10' empty room makes perfect sense : )
Okay, still super scared about the fact that these guys seem able to quicken their breath weapons, but I think we should maybe focus on splitting them up and taking out one at a time out of their range? I'm now a bit sad that I went for Brawling armor over Resonating, but I guess there's always next level.
Also, GM ruling: How does my Garrote work against breath weapons? Does it require them to make a concentration check? Would taking the Choke action keep them from breathing?
Right now I'm leaning towards mythic Hideous Laughter on my turn, probably with an extra point to try to make the non-main targets sickened. But I may re-evaluate when I look carefully over all the sorcerer spells/depending on what happens before my next turn.
They may well have something mythic making them so capable. :P I'm not super worried about it. We'll just fight, and see what happens! :)
Who would you have given your Mythic Endure Elements, Liis? Assuming you didn't start doing everyone? Or are we assuming she did?
Your garrot doesn't work at all, since they have to be helpless or unaware of you.
That's up to her. I just need to know what she does regularly.
...right, forgot about the "unaware" part. v_v. Does pinning do anything to stop breath weapons?
Also, I assumed Liisa targets the party members.
If you pin them, you can at least make sure they only breath in one direction.
Note: Liisa will cast Mythic Endure Elements on herself, Lina, Neri, Johnny & Luna
So basically all the party-members we had when we hit 5. Sadly, I haven't accounted for our 2 additions which is why I was thinking of adding another casting of it each day : )
Now I'm just imagining Lina wrestling the crystal wolf, trussing it up, and then shoving it into a bag of holding, and just opening it to use it for its breath weapon. You know, assuming it didn't need air inside the bag. :P
It has something like 15 minutes of air in the bag. So it's just a magical weapon that you have to use every 15 minutes for it to keep working.
Although this brings up another question: can it ruin all the other stuff we have in the bag?
Well, I will try to take at least one of these guys alive. But if the crystal wolf's corpse can give us crystals...
Also, are we waiting on anyone?
The GM to have enough time to post a wrap up for Surprise Round. It's a work day, snatching bits here and there where I can post short pithy posts, like this one, that don't require brain matter.
Ah, no worries then! (You were super active yesterday, so I wasn't sure; but we have a tendency to forget who's up, so I was pinging players on that)
Oooooooooooooooooo. Lina has a machine that goes PING! :)
Well, technically, a spoon is a machine that goes ping.
sorry for being slow... was out all day today and will be out all day tomorrow - but will be able to post late pacific time.
Minor note: In general, you can indeed smack people adjacent to you with whips. It is usually not a good idea though ...
A whip deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).
Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a whip sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
Weapon Feature(s): finesse, reach.
Certain magical whips may be different of course : )
(and there is that whip mastery series of feats aimed to make the whip a true 15/10' reach no drawbacks weapon with added indiana jones flavour. But that is quite an extensive chain if I recall correctly!)
Never mind then, not sure where I had that can't affect adjacent from.
Probably every other reach weapon in the book, I mean ... It would be the logical assumption :P
Eheheh, let's find out what happens to that wolf's crystals...
Do the wolves go before SSetheen because of tiebreaker dex? I can't remember if that's how this campaign does.
Otherwise, looking forward to swearing at some wolves.
Ssetheen, now might also be a good time to use that awesome Fly hex you're slinging to get out of range of the next frost cone.
EDIT: Also, with Spiritual Guardian, that Spiritual Weapon should've gotten an additional +2 to hit.
(too late to edit, but just realized he's slowed and can't. never mind)
Neri, Luna, do you guys need help? I can burn more resources next turn to tie up this guy and dash over there, if necessary.
No way to know, really.
Oh, I just meant, like, if you get hit really hard, yell for help.
Help!
Though I think you may have for now. I just hope to survive the AoO for flying away from the wolf then healing myself next round to stop the bleeding before I die.
Kong—once you get above the range of their breath (likely less than 30') these guys shouldn't be able to hurt you; and you've got enough cure spells prepared to handle bleed (if you can survive the AoO, but bleed effects don't stack). That said, unless it's got some mad wrestling skills, I think the wolf near you might not be able to reach you regardless.
Sorry all, RL stuff going on this week. :( I'll try to get back on track soon.
That's what we usually figure, nw. Only reason I've been posting so much this week is mostly that I'm working so hard I'm getting stress-related insomnia.
Good luck with whatever is up, Kittiface. :)
Oh, man! I just finished my first ever paid singing gig and the audience loved us, the woman I have a huge crush on gave me her number, and now this game is updating again. It's been a good day, and I hope things are going better for our GM.
Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.
If you have him pinned, you may attempt to tie him up. But, if you are the person grappling him, you get a -10. Someone else could attempt to tie them up without the -10, but the person grappling him cannot.
Additionally, nothing in here says that this is a free action. First of all, you would need quick draw to draw out 10 yards of rope, if you had it immediately available (hooked on a belt hook). Your rope is in your backpack. So you are
A) Grappling/Pinning something bigger than you
B) Opening your backpack
C) Digging into your backpack
D) Getting out a rope
E) Tying your pinned target
F) Flurrying
All in one round? No, that's not in the rules. Just getting the rope is going to be a move action and a standard action, and they require two hands. You cannot perform an action that requires two hands while you are grappled, and while you are pinning, you have the grappled condition.
I hate grapple. Anything that requires a flowchart to properly understand quickly (without rote memorization), just needs to die. At least when it comes to tabletop gaming. :(
Okay, so...
Grapple/pin/tie: There are no official Paizo erratas on this. Common forum consensus is that the -10 penalty is only if the target is not pinned. (The d20pfsrd Grapple Flow Chart treats it the same way, though that isn't official paizo material, just d20pfsrd stuff—and it fails to recall that a "tied up" creature from a grapple isn't actually helpless). In this interpretation, the "If you are grappling" is in contrast to "If you are pinning."
It's kind of powerful, and I am okay with the -10 penalty being imposed, but if we do that I'd say it doesn't make sense to also give -10 to the penalty to maintain.
* * *
As for rope—the first thing we bought at Johnny's magic shop was a Robe of Infinite Twine, which Lina's been wearing ever since, disguised by her Sleeves of Many Garments. Hence "pulls rope from inside of her sleeve" which I should've been waaay more clear about. That said, they only produce 10' of rope/round (it's unclear whether it's a free action or not, RAW), and if I need 10 yards to tie the guy up, that changes things a bit.
Also, Lina has Quick Draw this round, because of Ki spent for a Qinggong ability as a free action. Qinggong monks are pretty neat.
If she can't tie him up without more than 10' of rope, I could have the bonus standard action be a grapple check to maintain (and then roll damage for it); since she's already spent a standard action to maintain, Lina is allowed to make a full attack against him with a light weapon without breaking the grapple, leaving attacks unchanged.
Activating a magic item is a standard action unless otherwise indicated, so activating the robe would be a standard action.
As to the amount of rope, the wolf is the size of a bull. I'm not sure you can hog tie a bull with 10 ft of rope.
Ah, then I'd be drawing 50' of rope as an immediate action and losing the third attack in the flurry. Good to know. Let me know how the rest of my turn changes.
And how are you drawing 50' of rope as an immediate action? It's in your pack isn't it?
Note: Liisa will cast Mythic Endure Elements on herself, Lina, Neri, Johnny & LunaSo basically all the party-members we had when we hit 5. Sadly, I haven't accounted for our 2 additions which is why I was thinking of adding another casting of it each day : )
I'll just quote this again to reassure you that yes; some of you are indeed enjoying a limtited protection against the element to the tune of cold & fire resist 5 : )
________________________________Unrelated note: Been on a train with wi-fi and started to work trough my games. Train is scheduled to arrive in ~15 min, so we'll see if I manage to compose an IC post- sorry to hold you up! (Or rather, mostly mdt :P)
Also, congratulations on your singing gig : )
The wearer can draw up to 30 feet of twine or up to 10 feet of hemp rope per round from the robe without harming it. As an immediate action, the wearer can draw up to 150 feet of twine or 50 feet of rope from the robe, but this gives the robe the broken condition and suppresses its powers until it is repaired. Twine or rope drawn from the robe remains connected until cut or torn, but is treated as common material rather than part of a magic item. Pieces removed become normal twine or rope.
To clarify, by my understanding (and yes, the grapple rules SUCK). Failing to tie up the pinned wolf would have dropped the pin back to a grapple, then the other action, rather than flurrying, would be to put the pin back in place.
Okay. I'm cool with that! She's still drawing the fan this turn, because why not, touching this thing seems like a bad idea.
Those aren't the precise grapple rules I play with, but they seem reasonable, and they're a good way (vs mine) of nerfing grapple to an acceptable power level in a mythic game.
Well, if you're maintaining the pin, you're touching it! Even with the fan drawn. :) But you do have some resistance against it's touch.
Yeah—but there's a difference between touching it once per round and four times! o.O
I derped on Celestine and Kinsalia, when asking if it seemed likely they were connected to the wolves. Don't tell them.
Also, I approve Grapple not being overpowered for when we finally have to deal with Barathiel's luchadors. :)