| Kai_G |
I'm trying to create an NPC that illustrates to my players that the world they are entering into is as rich with magic items as the Inner Sea, but that they won't have to wait for forever to obtain them. In this world, most magic items are cursed, lowering the gp cost and bringing items into reach, but bearing a different kind of cost.
The character would be a powerful Pharasmin warrior, carrying many magic items at a level typical of 12-13th level play. I'd like some help coming up with interesting curses that match the benefits/flavor of the item and would still be balanced by the rules but, would also still be desirable.
Example: Esobok Blade
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th
Slot none; Weight 8 lbs.
STATISTICS
Alignment N; Ego 16; Senses 60 ft., Darkvision
Int 5, Wis 14, Cha 15
Communication empathy
Special Purpose Slay Undead
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 9th, concentration +11)
Detect Undead - At Will
DESCRIPTION
Created by priests in the service of their mistress Pharasma, Lady of Graves, Esobok Blades contain the bound spirits of bestial Esobok psychopomps. These weapons are carved with the letters of the long-forgotten language that grace the most ancient tombstone of the Boneyard and resemble the curved blades of adamantine scythes carried by Vanth psychopomps. This resemblence is more than superficial, as the spirits only serve those who share the philosophical views and purposes of their former Vanth masters.
Esobok Blades function as +1 Undead-bane Greatswords. These weapons are neutral intelligent weapons, but not particularly powerful ones, and most PCs who claim it as their own shouldn’t have much of a problem keeping it in line.
Unruly Nature: If the item manages to seize control through personality conflict, it directs its possessor to attack the nearest undead creature. If no such creature is present, then it directs its possessor to attack the nearest living creature. Regardless of the target, its possessor continues to fight until unconscious or dead or until no living thing remains within 30 feet, at which point the Esobok Blade relinquishes control back to the possessor.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 3,197gp; Feats Craft Magic Arms and Armor; Spells summon lesser psychopomp
The other items I'm looking to include are as follows:
Minor Head Piercings (Simple Nose Ring)
Ring of the Sublime (As a Magic Tattoo)
Boots of the Earth
Eye Patch of Infamy
Mammoth Hide
Minor Ring of Energy Resistance (Acid)
Tattoo (Periapt of Health)
Tattoo (Periapt of Proof Against Paralysis)
Belt of Giant Strength (+4)
Periapt of Proof against Poison
Ruby Skull of Chast (As a Magic Tattoo)
Any thoughts?
| Pizza Lord |
Ruby Skull of Chast (as a magic tattoo)
Not sure what 12th-level character might be carrying something like this around, but okay. Here's a suggestion:
Ruby Skull Tattoo [omitting stat block]Description:
This intricate, crimson skull tattoo encompasses the bearer's face, scalp, and entire head. It functions with all the effects of the Ruby Skull of Chast but has several drawbacks for its wearer. First, the ingredients of the inks used cause all facial, head hair, and fur to fall out, leaving the bearer bald and unable to grow hair by any method. While merely cosmetic for most creatures, this can affect certain classes, such as a white-haired witch, more severely. Second, the tattoo must be uncovered to function, preventing the use of head, headband, or mask items. Magical items of these sorts do not provide any benefits (though curses or penalties apply) nor will the ruby skull tattoo function until such coverings are removed. Eye slot items and piercings still function unless they are unusually concealing. Third, any undead within 40 feet of the tattoo are always aware of the bearer's presence regardless of intervening barriers or magical concealments and can locate them as though with blindsight otherwise. Mindless undead, unless directly commanded otherwise, attack the bearer in preference to others and intelligent undead prefer to do so as well, though they are under no compulsion to take any actions they don't wish to. This effect is always active even if the tattoo is otherwise concealed or not functioning.
| Pizza Lord |
Periapt of Proof against Poison
Periapt of Poison Dispersal
DescriptionAppearing and detecting as a periapt of proof against poison, this item functions identically, save that it has no effect on inhaled poisons. Whenever its wearer is subject to any other poison, the periapt expels it from the wearer's body as as a 5-foot radius cloud. Its type changes to inhaled, but it otherwise maintains its other properties. Only allies of the wearer (such as would be subject to a bless spell), including mounts, familiars, and animal companions, are affected by this cloud.
| Pizza Lord |
Eye Patch of Infamy
Eye Patch of Remote Infamy
Description:This eye patch functions identically to an eye patch of infamy and looks just as intimidating to most... from a distance. Up close, it actually seems a little comical and goofy-looking in a nebulous way, negating any normal bonuses it would provide on targets within 10 feet. Orcs (including half-orcs) always find it suitably dashing or intimidating and are affected normally. The wearer also views himself in a suitably imposing light, regardless of apparent reactions or attempts to convince him otherwise.
| Pizza Lord |
Minor Head Piercings (Simple Nose Ring)
Minor Head Piercings of Phlebotomy
Description:These jagged-looking piercings provide up to a +5 circumstance bonus to Intimidate checks. When the wearer attempts an Intimidate check, they choose the amount of the bonus they wish to add and the piercing grows more jagged and fearsome-looking, it also causes an associated area of the wearer to start bleeding (typically eyes, ears, nose, or mouth), which also tends to make the wearer look a bit more frightening. This causes the wearer to begin taking bleed damage in the next round equal to the bonus added to the Intimidate check. This bleeding cannot be prevented (such as with a periapt of wound closure) but can be ended normally with a DC 15 Heal check or with magical healing if the caster succeeds at a caster level check against the piercing (DC 11 + item's CL, typically 5). A failed check will still heal damage, but not end the bleeding. Otherwise the bleeding continues for 1 minute. Multiple instances of bleed from the piercing stack and each requires separate healing to staunch. The piercings must be visible to function and creatures that don't bleed or have blood cannot benefit from them.
| Pizza Lord |
Boots of the Earth
Something about having fast healing 1 whenever you want always rubs me raw, I mean, basically for 5,000 gp you never need healing outside combat again. Not even a limit to using it, but that's probably just my opinion. Anyway, here's an option:
Boots of Adhering EarthDescription:
These boots detect as boots of the earth and function identically except the wearer cannot voluntarily end the effect for 3 rounds once they plant their feet. If, during this time, the wearer moves or is moved from their position they immediately fall prone. A wearer ending up prone during this time is stuck to the ground and unable to rise, crawl, move away, or otherwise break contact for the remainder of the duration and an additional 3 rounds. Any penalties due to being prone are doubled during this time. Effects like freedom of movement are ineffective, though teleportation effects can still move the wearer, though they will be stuck in place at their new destination unless it isn't in contact with the ground (and they will become stuck again if they do contact it). The benefits of the boots continue to function during this time.
| Kai_G |
@Pizza Lord - I appreciate the burst of creativity in your items.
Pizza Lord's Ruby Skull Tattoo
Not sure what 12th-level character might be carrying something like this around, but okay. Here's a suggestion:
Ruby Skull Tattoo
Description:
This intricate, crimson skull tattoo encompasses the bearer's face, scalp, and entire head. It functions with all the effects of the Ruby Skull of Chast but has several drawbacks for its wearer. First, the ingredients of the inks used cause all facial, head hair, and fur to fall out, leaving the bearer bald and unable to grow hair by any method. While merely cosmetic for most creatures, this can affect certain classes, such as a white-haired witch, more severely. Second, the tattoo must be uncovered to function, preventing the use of head, headband, or mask items. Magical items of these sorts do not provide any benefits (though curses or penalties apply) nor will the ruby skull tattoo function until such coverings are removed. Eye slot items and piercings still function unless they are unusually concealing. Third, any undead within 40 feet of the tattoo are always aware of the bearer's presence regardless of intervening barriers or magical concealments and can locate them as though with blindsight otherwise. Mindless undead, unless directly commanded otherwise, attack the bearer in preference to others and intelligent undead prefer to do so as well, though they are under no compulsion to take any actions they don't wish to. This effect is always active even if the tattoo is otherwise concealed or not functioning.
Feedback:
What 12-13th Level PC might be carrying something like this around:
The Price given for a Ruby Skull of Chast is 65,000gp. If we take the recommendation, "Characters should spend no more than half their total wealth on any single item," a 13th level character could have an item with a cost of up to 70,000gp. Even if we use the recommendation, "For a balanced approach, PCs that are built after 1st level should spend no more than 25% of their wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective devices, 25% on other magic items, 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands, and 10% on ordinary gear and coins," and the recommendations for adjusting character wealth by level, "As a guideline, allowing a crafting PC to exceed the Character Wealth by Level guidelines by about 25% is fair, or even up to 50% if the PC has multiple crafting feats," a 13th level character with Craft Wondrous Item could still budget up to 70,000gp of Wondrous Items. Using the same recommendations, a 13th level character with Craft Wondrous Item and at least one other crafting feat could still budget up to 105,000gp in Wondrous Items. Even a 12th level crafting PC could have between 54,000gp and 81,000gp in Wondrous Items. Given all this and considering cost reductions for cursed items, I don't think it's at all unreasonable for a PC to have an item like the Ruby Skull of Chast.
Cost Breaks
1) Causes all facial, head hair, and fur to fall out, leaving the bearer bald and unable to grow hair by any method - cost isn’t reduced for cosmetic drawbacks or requirements with no direct game effects. 0% reduction
2) Can affect certain classes, such as a white-haired witch, more severely. - Effectively removing class features. Equivalent to "Character cannot cast arcane spells," "Character cannot cast divine spells," or "Character cannot cast any spells." 50% reduction
3) Must be uncovered to function - The cost of dependent items, which function only in certain situations... 30% reduction
4) Preventing the use of head or headband items - The loss of access to 15% of a character's available magic item slots could be considered a harmful or costly drawback for some, or a severe drawback for classes that rely more heavily on their mental scores. 30-50% reduction
5) Any undead within 40 feet of the tattoo are always aware of the bearer's presence regardless of intervening barriers or magical concealments and can locate them as though with blindsight otherwise. - I'd equate this to something worse than a negative level as it significantly impacts a character's survivability and that of its party when detected, which is definitely worse than a -1 penalty to d20 rolls and -5 maximum hit points. 30-50% reduction
6) Mindless undead, unless directly commanded otherwise, attack the bearer in preference to others and intelligent undead prefer to do so as well, though they are under no compulsion to take any actions they don't wish to. - Again, this is definitely worse than a negative level. Though it's situational, undead are probably one of the most common enemy types for adventurers to encounter and the major benefits of the item only come into play when this creature type is encountered. I'd actually say this runs counter in theme to the since the item creates a Hallow effect. Assuming the item had this drawback. 30-50% reduction
Cost Summary:
Using the tradition flat cost reductions, the original 65,000gp item would be reduced by 170-230% and would cost nothing, but could arguably increase the character's wealth by level. Using a graduated cost reduction, applying the reduction only to the remaining cost rather than the original cost, this item's cost would be reduced from 65,000gp to between 4,063gp and 7,804gp.
Overall:
In the realm of, "interesting curses that match the benefits/flavor of the item and would still be balanced by the rules but, would also still be desirable," I do believe this falls outside of the desirable category as the curses outnumber an outweigh the benefits, but I'll probably tweak some of these ideas and toss the re-worked idea back out on the thread for review.
Pizza Lord's Periapt of Poison Dispersal
Quote:Periapt of Proof against PoisonPeriapt of Poison Dispersal
Description
Appearing and detecting as a periapt of proof against poison, this item functions identically, save that it has no effect on inhaled poisons. Whenever its wearer is subject to any other poison, the periapt expels it from the wearer's body as a 5-foot radius cloud. Its type changes to inhaled, but it otherwise maintains its other properties. Only allies of the wearer (such as would be subject to a bless spell), including mounts, familiars, and animal companions, are affected by this cloud.
Feedback:
Cost Breaks
1) No effect on inhaled poisons - The cost of dependent items, which function only in certain situations..., but inhaled poisons are far less frequent (10/~75 poisons listed on the pfsrd) and typically less potent than contact or injury poisons. 10% reduction
2) Expels poison from the wearer's body as a 5-foot radius cloud. Its type changes to inhaled, but it otherwise maintains its other properties. Only allies of the wearer (such as would be subject to a bless spell), including mounts, familiars, and animal companions, are affected by this cloud. - Doesn't negate the poison, but likely shifts it to one or more nearby allies. I think the potential for multiple allies balances out the potential for no allies to be affected. "Opposite Effect or Target" 50% cost reduction
Cost Summary:
Using the tradition flat cost reductions, the original 27,000gp item would be reduced by 60% and would cost 10,800gp. Using a graduated cost reduction, applying the reduction only to the remaining cost rather than the original cost, this item's cost would be reduced from 27,000gp to 12,150gp
Overall: This item is pretty reasonable and has great flavor. My biggest takeaway from this item is to potentially shift targets to an ally rather than negate an effect. It's a great idea.
Pizza Lord's Eye Patch of Remote Infamy
Quote:Eye Patch of InfamyEye Patch of Remote Infamy
Description:
This eye patch functions identically to an eye patch of infamy and looks just as intimidating to most... from a distance. Up close, it actually seems a little comical and goofy-looking in a nebulous way, negating any normal bonuses it would provide on targets within 10 feet. Orcs (including half-orcs) always find it suitably dashing or intimidating and are affected normally. The wearer also views himself in a suitably imposing light, regardless of apparent reactions or attempts to convince him otherwise.
Feedback:
Cost Breaks
1) Comedic appearance - cost isn’t reduced for cosmetic drawbacks or requirements with no direct game effects. 0% reduction
2) Doesn't provide any normal bonuses on targets within 10 feet unless the target has the orc subtype - The cost of dependent items, which function only in certain situations... 30% reduction
3) Wearer views himself in a suitably imposing light, regardless of apparent reactions or attempts to convince him otherwise - Given that the demoralize action with this item can affect targets within 60 feet, I'd estimated that not being able to recognize/acknowledge when the item isn't granting a benefit for majority of targets within 15% of the ability's range, a 20% reduction seems fair.
Cost Summary:
Using the tradition flat cost reductions, the original 10,000gp item would be reduced by 50% and would cost 5,000gp. Using a graduated cost reduction, applying the reduction only to the remaining cost rather than the original cost, this item's cost would be reduced from 10,000gp to 5,600gp.
Overall: I'm not a fan of comical items unless the campaign is intended to be comical and light-hearted. If this were to be changed to a cultural reference on the item, such as symbols of a less threatening orc deity, warlord, or legend, this item still makes sense within the context of a more serious campaign.
Pizza Lord's Eye Minor Head Piercings of Phlebotomy
Quote:Minor Head Piercings (Simple Nose Ring)Minor Head Piercings of Phlebotomy
Description:
These jagged-looking piercings provide up to a +5 circumstance bonus to Intimidate checks. When the wearer attempts an Intimidate check, they choose the amount of the bonus they wish to add and the piercing grows more jagged and fearsome-looking, it also causes an associated area of the wearer to start bleeding (typically eyes, ears, nose, or mouth), which also tends to make the wearer look a bit more frightening. This causes the wearer to begin taking bleed damage in the next round equal to the bonus added to the Intimidate check. This bleeding cannot be prevented (such as with a periapt of wound closure) but can be ended normally with a DC 15 Heal check or with magical healing if the caster succeeds at a caster level check against the piercing (DC 11 + item's CL, typically 5). A failed check will still heal damage, but not end the bleeding. Otherwise, the bleeding continues for 1 minute. Multiple instances of bleed from the piercing stack and each requires separate healing to staunch. The piercings must be visible to function and creatures that don't bleed or have blood cannot benefit from them.
Feedback:
Cost Breaks
1) Wearer takes bleed damage equal to the bonus added to the Intimidate check for 1 minute that cannot be prevented but can be ended normally with a DC 15 Heal check or with magical healing, though only with a successful caster level check (DC 16). A failed check heals damage but doesn't end the bleeding. - To gain the full effect of the item, a PC could potentially lose 50 hp and could potentially kill a 5th level character. A 12-13th level tank is likely to have around 150-200 hp and often use low level (CL 1-3) healing items for combat healing or abilities such as fast healing. How would class healing abilities that don't have CL equivalents stop the bleeding? Could they? With a CL 1-3 healing item, PC's are likely to take about 75% of the max damage for a demoralize check. I think that one instance of +5 to an intimidate check for what's likely to be 35-50hp is REALLY steep. 50% reduction
2) The piercings must be visible to function and creatures that don't bleed or have blood cannot benefit from them. - The vast majority of PC races have blood and can bleed by default. Being visible is a minor inconvenience, really only limiting PCs from wearing masks. Minor requirement...10% cost reduction
Cost Summary:
Using the tradition flat cost reductions, the original 3,750gp item would be reduced by 60% and would cost 1,500gp. Using a graduated cost reduction, applying the reduction only to the remaining cost rather than the original cost, this item's cost would be reduced from 3,750gp to 1,688gp
Overall: This item is very fitting with the flavor, but is likely to be VERY dangerous to a PC's survivability. I think that will make the item get glossed over as undesirable. If the theme was kept the same while the mechanics were reworked, this could be awesome.
Pizza Lord's Eye Boots of the Adhering Earth
Quote:Boots of the EarthSomething about having fast healing 1 whenever you want always rubs me raw, I mean, basically for 5,000 gp you never need healing outside combat again. Not even a limit to using it, but that's probably just my opinion. Anyway, here's an option:
Boots of Adhering Earth
Description:
These boots detect as boots of the earth and function identically except the wearer cannot voluntarily end the effect for 3 rounds once they plant their feet. If, during this time, the wearer moves or is moved from their position they immediately fall prone. A wearer ending up prone during this time is stuck to the ground and unable to rise, crawl, move away, or otherwise break contact for the remainder of the duration and an additional 3 rounds. Any penalties due to being prone are doubled during this time. Effects like freedom of movement are ineffective, though teleportation effects can still move the wearer, though they will be stuck in place at their new destination unless it isn't in contact with the ground (and they will become stuck again if they do contact it). The benefits of the boots continue to function during this time.
Feedback:
Cost Breaks
1) Cannot voluntarily end the effect for 3 rounds - minor drawback...10% cost reduction
2) If forced to move from their position, they immediately fall prone. Stuck to the ground and unable to rise, crawl, move away, or otherwise break contact for the remainder of the duration and an additional 3 rounds, effects like freedom of movement are ineffective, teleportation effects can still move the wearer, though they will be stuck in place at their new destination unless it isn't in contact with the ground (and they will become stuck again if they do contact it) - severe drawback...50% cost reduction
3) Any penalties due to being prone are doubled during this time. - harmful drawback...30% cost reduction
Cost Summary:
Using the tradition flat cost reductions, the original 5,000gp item would be reduced by 90% and would cost 500gp. Using a graduated cost reduction, applying the reduction only to the remaining cost rather than the original cost, this item's cost would be reduced from 5,000gp to 1,575gp
Overall: I think the stuck to the ground part is fitting in theme, but the penalties in combat are very debilitating and do nothing to alleviate the unlimited out-of-combat use that many GM's are wary of with this item. I have some ideas and I'll throw a revised item on the thread later for review.
| Pizza Lord |
And here I thought my contributions were lost to Time and Space. I didn't realize you were taking the time to do such a detailed analysis and review. Obviously you can do what fits your game, these were only suggestions and themes to spark your own creativity.
Here's a few thoughts on your comments and the potential cost reductions. I will note that those are just broad-based strokes and shouldn't be taken as absolutes for what are obviously customized drawbacks:
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What 12-13th Level PC might be carrying something like this around[?]
That was more a comment on the fact that it seems the Ruby Skull is a unique, legendary item, so a person having such a thing would be unusual (obviously without a quest or campaign in which they acquired it.) It wasn't in comment to just the Wealth By Level or estimated gold piece value of it. (and obviously we aren't talking about the actual skull, but a tattoo that emulates it).
2) Can affect certain classes, such as a white-haired witch, more severely. - Effectively removing class features. Equivalent to "Character cannot cast arcane spells," "Character cannot cast divine spells," or "Character cannot cast any spells." 50% reduction
This isn't a loss of a major class ability to a whole class. It is more like the loss of an aspect of a specific archetype. Granted, it's a defining characteristic, but it isn't the same as taking away their spells. At most, it's something that affects less than 5-10% (depending on your campaign) of classes and then about 5-10% of that class. It's not something like a curse that jumps up and surprises a character putting on a cursed helmet or something. It's a full head tattoo and they're probably purposefully making the choice to do so (just like the white-haired witch made the choice to give up hexes for hair).
It's not like we give weapons a 50% reduction in cost because by its very nature now creatures that don't use weapons have no use for it, or classes that prefer to fight without weapons (ie. monks) or get their own weapons or forms (wildshaping druids) can't use it as effectively. You wouldn't halve the cost of a magical suit of armor because your decided to make it out of metal and now a druid would lose their spell-casting ability if they used it (unless it was specifically only made to be worn by druids who would lose their abilities). This tattoo falls under the... It-is-what-it-is-and-you-know-what-it-is category. Hardly worthy of a 50% reduction in cost. It's such a narrow penalty, it would only rank 10% in my opinion (and yes, that's just my opinion.)
3) Must be uncovered to function - The cost of dependent items, which function only in certain situations... 30% reduction
This cost would be subsumed in #4. Those would be considered an overlap. I would stick with 30% reduction like you did.
5) Any undead within 40 feet of the tattoo are always aware of the bearer's presence regardless of intervening barriers or magical concealments and can locate them as though with blindsight otherwise. - I'd equate this to something worse than a negative level as it significantly impacts a character's survivability and that of its party when detected, which is definitely worse than a -1 penalty to d20 rolls and -5 maximum hit points. 30-50% reduction
I don't think it's as bad as you make it sound. At 40 feet, most undead or creatures will be aware of the party (or will be soon, unless the whole party is trying to stealth past them). Also, at that range, the undead will be in the area of the hallow (barring intervening barriers, like walls or different levels (which may mean the undead can't reach them, just become aware). The ability to be directly tracked and senses as with blindsight (thus preventing concealment attempts) is certainly a drawback, but no more than 10-15% I would say (it really depends on the character, anybody could have a ring of invisibility or something or be a Stealth character, but you also can't view this as a surprise curse. It's a tattoo for facing and debilitating undead, it's purpose (at last the Skull's that it was based on, and thus thematically this should as well) isn't to hide from undead. Probably 10%.
6) Mindless undead, unless directly commanded otherwise, attack the bearer in preference to others and intelligent undead prefer to do so as well, though they are under no compulsion to take any actions they don't wish to. - Again, this is definitely worse than a negative level. Though it's situational, undead are probably one of the most common enemy types for adventurers to encounter and the major benefits of the item only come into play when this creature type is encountered. I'd actually say this runs counter in theme to the since the item creates a Hallow effect. Assuming the item had this drawback. 30-50% reduction.
This kind of drawback is subsumed or combined into #5 above. Realistically and mechanically, most mindless undead encountered are going to attack. That's almost always a given. Unless the undead were commanded to do something else, like just stand in alcoves along a hallway until someone tried to open a door without the proper symbol or phrase, but that's covered under the 'unless commanded not to'. Also, despite their preference, it also makes no compulsion on intelligent undead to do anything, so this amounts to flavor to give a GM leeway in combat. Other than mindless undead prefering the wearer, this basically amounts to changing very little game-wise, though it is a drawback and I would say it's about a 5–10% reduction, in conjunction with #5.
As for the attraction of undead being anti-thematic, I would have to say that it's no different than being like a holy beacon that attracts the attention of evil. First, it's very short range. Second, despite the original Ruby Skull likely being well-concealed and hard to detect, this is not the same thematically (despite being the same power-wise). This is a full head tattoo. You don't get a full head tattoo to be inconspicuous. This is an item you get because you want to show that you challenge undead and you seek them out. Having them come right towards you is not something you fear or you wouldn't have your entire skull tattooed with blazing, arcane crimson inks.
My conclusion (which is basically just advice) is about a 45–50% reduction, which is probably as low as I would go for cost reductions on any item.
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I agree with #1. 10% for not affecting inhaled poisons.
2) Expels poison from the wearer's body as a 5-foot radius cloud. Its type changes to inhaled, but it otherwise maintains its other properties. Only allies of the wearer (such as would be subject to a bless spell), including mounts, familiars, and animal companions, are affected by this cloud. - Doesn't negate the poison, but likely shifts it to one or more nearby allies. I think the potential for multiple allies balances out the potential for no allies to be affected. "Opposite Effect or Target" 50% cost reduction.
This isn't quite the same. Opposite effect would be where your boots of haste suddenly made up slowed or where your ring of waterbreathing drowns you. It would also be where your eyes of charming charm you or your wand of magic missiles attack your allies instead of your target. The fact that allies can be affected by its quirk isn't the same. This actually works how it's supposed to, just with a side-effect. The potential to damage allies is there, but it's not a 50% cost reduction value. The effect radius is small, and most PCs will have only 3 or 4 allies at most (other than a mount, possibly), and those would have to be standing next to them. It's more like 10–20% (unlike the Ruby Skull Tattoo, which you pretty much purposefully get, this might be picked up under a false assumption that it's a normal periapt of proof against poison) and that's only until the wearer becomes aware of the quirk, at which point anyone can be ready (and most characters can hold their breath for so long, round-wise, that it's a wonder anyone has to breathe at all).
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2) Doesn't provide any normal bonuses on targets within 10 feet unless the target has the orc subtype - The cost of dependent items, which function only in certain situations... 30% reduction
That's a bit extreme. Almost all the 'certain situations' involved are about 50% likely, ie. must be day or night, must be above or below freezing, must be within 10 feet of a certain creature type (you would have a case if it only worked within 10 feet of an orc). Otherwise, you're looking at situations where the item basically doesn't function 50% of the time out of a day (or you're in freezing or non-freezing temperatures, which is likely a campaign or dungeon scenario you've either placed yourself in, or have no control over, so either way it doesn't matter).
In this case, it may not provide its Intimidate bonus against targets (other than orcs and half-orcs) within 10 feet, but it still works. For instance, normally you must be adjacent, or at least threatening, a target. With this, the effect still works, allowing you to attempt a demoralize, just with no bonus to Intimidate from the eyepatch. That's a much more modest drawback. My estimation would be 10–15%.
3) Wearer views himself in a suitably imposing light, regardless of apparent reactions or attempts to convince him otherwise - Given that the demoralize action with this item can affect targets within 60 feet, I'd estimated that not being able to recognize/acknowledge when the item isn't granting a benefit for majority of targets within 15% of the ability's range, a 20% reduction seems fair.
I would view this as much less. The wearer is not compelled to act in any way, other than disregard people claiming they aren't as imposing as they think as possibly jealousy, joking, or bravado. There's nothing that prevents them from removing the item or that forces them to continually use an item that provides no benefit (and it does work, just with a quirk).
Normally a character should not know what bonuses they are receiving or that their target is receiving any (the player might know or suspect, such as knowing they've cast guidance and should be getting a +1), but they shouldn't know if they just failed to beat the target's Sense Motive or if they're immune to fear effects, or just had a bonus they didn't know about. Allowing them to notice some nebulous bonus that they couldn't otherwise detect in-character and giving them a 20% discount on an item because of it is a bit iffy. Again, the item still lets them make demoralize attempts at a range when they couldn't otherwise, so allowing them to notice "Hey, that guy was shaken for 1 less round than he should have been because my guy should have beat his DC by 10." is a bit metagaming. I would go 10–15%, probably 10%.
Overall: I'm not a fan of comical items unless the campaign is intended to be comical and light-hearted.
I would have gone higher on the drawback reduction above if the item actually penalized the wearer, or made them look silly or ineffectual. It doesn't make the wearer less intimidating, clownish, or silly; the eyepatch just looks silly or out-of-place in a nebulous, hard-to-pin-down way, negating the bonus.
The comical part wasn't intended to mean it was clownish or stupid, just that there was something out-of-place and distracting about it up close that draws attention away from the intimidation going on. That was just the shortest, easiest way (and by saying 'nebulous') to say that something looks off. The wearer can still intimidate the target, just without the bonus. The wearer isn't penalized, but unfortunately, almost any reason you give for someone not looking intimidating is going to be because they look ineffectual, weak, or comedic. I guess the best, non-clownish example I could offer would be:
"You see an orc charging you in a black loincloth of rage (normally a +5 Intimidate bonus) and screaming intimidatingly. As he gets closer... you realize the loincloth is actually black silk and is a Giorgio Armani limited edition."
So, while I don't think you need to mention that the wearer looks clownish or silly (since it doesn't make them look that way) and it doesn't hinder their Intimidation, that was the easiest way I could describe why it offered no bonus in a very short radius. I hope that helps.
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1) Wearer takes bleed damage equal to the bonus added to the Intimidate check for 1 minute that cannot be prevented but can be ended normally with a DC 15 Heal check or with magical healing, though only with a successful caster level check (DC 16). A failed check heals damage but doesn't end the bleeding. - To gain the full effect of the item, a PC could potentially lose 50 hp and could potentially kill a 5th level character. A 12-13th level tank is likely to have around 150-200 hp and often use low level (CL 1-3) healing items for combat healing or abilities such as fast healing. How would class healing abilities that don't have CL equivalents stop the bleeding? Could they? With a CL 1-3 healing item, PC's are likely to take about 75% of the max damage for a demoralize check. I think that one instance of +5 to an intimidate check for what's likely to be 35-50hp is REALLY steep. 50% reduction
First, if an effect somehow provides healing but without a CL-equivalent with which to beat the DC 16, then it doesn't stop the bleeding. It still heals, it just doesn't stop the bleeding. This would apply to creatures with fast healing, they would heal, but this prevents them from just maxing out uses of a drawback item without facing the drawback. Otherwise, they would always max out the item, and fast heal 1 and not worry about the 5 bleeding (or only take 5), which is not the intent. Same reason for the wording about not being stopped by prevention effects, like a periapt of wound closure.
Second, the item isn't as dangerous as you think. It's not a surprise (except maybe the very first time, assuming a completely clueless wearer). The character selects the bonus, they select the bleed they are willing to risk. Most Intimidate-based characters are unlikely to be on the low end of the hit point scale (most will be martial and at least set up to be within threatening range of most targets). 10–50 hit points doesn't sound like a lot, and only at 40 to 50 does it sound life-threatening (unless you're already under that amount, in which case, don't take 4 or 5 bleed), but that's also over 10 rounds. It's not all at once. It is entirely unlikely that a character cannot heal themselves enough to stop the damage (we cannot account for potential damage from other sources for purposes of this, like if they're fighting. We must judge it on it's own merits cost-wise. As for viability, that's certainly up for review, but not for cost purposes).
Even if they're using low-level cure potions, those will still mitigate the bleed assuming they don't get a lucky roll to beat the caster level check (which is within reach of even a 1st-level effect), a simple Heal check DC 15, can do it as well. Most characters can make that by Taking 10 (or at least an ally can). Even in combat, that's still easy to do to stop the bleeding, let alone over 10 rounds. Even if all that fails, there's a 1 minute time limit (which is most definitely more generous than the duration of most bleed effects). While 50 damage (max) sounds like it could be a lot (depending on the unknown wearer), it's not as steep or eminent as you might initially think over 10 rounds. This is 15–20% at most, since it's all the wearer's choice. I would go 20%, only because of the caster level check requirement for healing effects.
2) The piercings must be visible to function and creatures that don't bleed or have blood cannot benefit from them. - The vast majority of PC races have blood and can bleed by default. Being visible is a minor inconvenience, really only limiting PCs from wearing masks. Minor requirement...10% cost reduction
Most characters are assumed to have blood, like you say. The fact that a bloodless character can't benefit is not really a restriction unless a character specifically went out of their way to make such a character and then attain that quality. If that's the case, then they just don't use the item. It's not forced on them and it doesn't do anything without their express consent and acknowledgement. We don't reduce the price of belts of mighty constitution because undead exist and they have no Con score to benefit from them (even if in your campaign undead are super common and make up 50% of the encounters). In this case, it's only basically a descriptor to keep the theme front and center: bleed for your bonus. There's a chance a particular player makes a character that has no blood, but that's no different from a character making a non-humanoid caster and being unable to benefit from spells that target humanoids. No reduction.
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1) Cannot voluntarily end the effect for 3 rounds - minor drawback...10% cost reduction.
This is close, but only if you just going by a minimum of 10%. 3 rounds mandatory use is one the lower end, I'd probably go up to 1 minute or longer and still be in the 10% range. 3 rounds is probably like 5%, scale-wise, especially since it is providing all bonuses and benefits with no hindrances (in this listing, those come in #2). It's not like they're taking penalties or damage from this and it's purposefully activated by the wearer, it doesn't occur on its own or spontaneously where they suddenly can't move. It's a drawback, but I'd go 5% (or if you are a stickler for going minimum 10%, then you need to lump it in with the actual drawback parts).
2) If forced to move from their position, they immediately fall prone. Stuck to the ground and unable to rise, crawl, move away, or otherwise break contact for the remainder of the duration and an additional 3 rounds, effects like freedom of movement are ineffective, teleportation effects can still move the wearer, though they will be stuck in place at their new destination unless it isn't in contact with the ground (and they will become stuck again if they do contact it) - severe drawback...50% cost reduction.
This is a bit misleading. Look at most drawbacks, you will see that they change alignments, genders, permanently mark the target, remove their casting abilities. The low end, minor stuff is like 'changes hair/skin color'. This is just them falling prone for 3+ rounds. We can assume it will be troublesome (ie. probably in combat... probably), but that's no different than if they were tripped or overrun or bullrushed and knocked prone any way. Additionally, the item gives bonuses to resist all those things, so it's less likely to happen than normal (other than a person specifically choosing to move them self). Yes, this is a drawback (not being able to stand back up), but not on the level of drawback you are applying. You are making extrapolating on the potential damage someone might be exposed to, rather than the actual effect. This is 10–15% reduction at best (15% if #1 and #2 were consolidated into one accounting).
3) Any penalties due to being prone are doubled during this time. - harmful drawback...30% cost reduction.
This is a drawback, but not near the severe drawbacks listed. It's (typically) going to be add -4 to attacks and AC. It doesn't stop the player from taking other actions, total defense, casting, etc. It's conditional; they must be prone and during the duration. I get why you are listing it as severe, you are extrapolating that there will be some orc with a greataxe standing over them to power attack them for 55 damage, but we can't guess on that, we have to take the penalty at its value. They are more likely to be hit, by what or for how much, we can't tell. It's hindering, but temporary. 10% reduction.
--------------------------------------------------------| LordBiBo |
I know this doesn't cover your items, but most of my magic shops have a "bargain bin" that contain a variety of cursed magic items that are potentially useful, but have some kind of drawback or don't do what you expect them to do. The drawback may or may not be advertised/obvious.
Here are some examples for inspiration:
- Magical leather armor that is designed to look like full on bondage gear
- Potion of fire resistance (or whatever potion of your choice) that is contaminated. Drinking it causes the imbiber to acquire disease of your choice (I gave them dysentery, which was hilarious a few days later as they had no idea how they got it)
- Ring of fire resistance that only functions underwater
- Intelligent Ring of Jumping that is super pervy and regularly forces the wearer to jump against their will
- Wand of "lightening" - makes things 50% lighter for 1 hour
- Catskin armor - Provides all the benefits of normal catskin armor but is made of literal cat skin/fur stitched together from several small cats. Felines hate the wearer and always act with violent hostility.
- Giant-hide armor - In addition to all the normal benefits this armor bestows, it also makes all giants in the area completely invisible to the wearer
- Dwarven Thrower - Functions normally except in the hands of a dwarf. A dwarf who attempt to throw this warhammer is instead flung forward 30 feet (possibly taking falling damage in the process). The hammer then returns to the dwarf, who must attempt to catch it with a successful DC 15 reflex save, or be struck by the hammer for 2d8+2 points of damage.
- Belt of Stoneskin - The wearer's skin turns to stone whenever the belt is active, which causes reduced sensitivity and mobility. This effectively applies a -4 armor check penalty to skills that such a penalty would apply to as well as a -4 circumstance penalty to perception checks involving touch. People also tend to stare at a walking statue...
- Goggles of Minute Seeing - Provide an accurate, to the minute, HUD of the current time whenever worn instead of the normal effects.
- Hand of Gory - While it functions as a normal hand of glory, it appears to be a freshly severed hand that constantly drips blood everywhere. Whenever the wearer is brought to 0 hp for any reason, their body explodes into a shower of gore.
| Pizza Lord |
Mammoth Hide
Haunted Hide of the Hunted Mammoth
Made from the hide of a hunted mammoth, this armor functions normally, but is haunted by the spirit of the slain beast. This +3 hide armor functions identically to mammoth hide until its wearer misses an attack during a charge action. When this occurs, the haunt manifests, doomed to play out the last moments of its life:Both of these effects last for 11 rounds (the CL of the item) or until dispelled (they count as separate effects for such purposes). Effects that hide a target from undead, such as hide from undead, are no help to the wearer; the haunt can always locate them unless they remove the armor. At the GM's discretion, other events may trigger the haunt if of suitable emotional significance, such as attacking an elephant, a snared animal, or touching poached or hunted ivory.
The haunt may not be destroyed or suppressed by normal means, but it may be laid to rest if carried (not worn or stored) on an overland trek of at least 20 miles to an elephant graveyard and buried into the earth there. Each month, there is a cumulative 5% chance that the haunt will move on, leaving the armor as functional mammoth hide.
| Pizza Lord |
- Giant-hide armor - In addition to all the normal benefits this armor bestows, it also makes all giants in the area completely invisible to the wearer
That's hilarious.
- Hand of Gory - While it functions as a normal hand of glory, it appears to be a freshly severed hand that constantly drips blood everywhere. Whenever the wearer is brought to 0 hp for any reason, their body explodes into a shower of gore.
I like the backhand of glory from 101 Cursed Items by Zenith Games. It slaps the wearer across the face whenever they try to cast a spell.
| Pizza Lord |
Tattoo (Periapt of Proof Against Paralysis)
Tattoo (Localized Proof Against Paralysis)
These magical tattoos provide protection against paralysis but only to the limb they're applied to. When their bearer would become paralyzed, any protected limb remains functional and may be used (the torso is included if any tattoo is inscribed). A victim receives a cumulative -2 penalty to CMB and CMD checks for each paralyzed limb (There may be an existing rule for paralyzed limbs, I am just putting an examplke here; still way better than what you normally get from being paralyzed). Such tattoos may be inscribed upon:Cost: 1/5th the price of a periapt of proof against paralysis per tattoo (So you'd need five to give yourself complete coverage and they don't make you fatigued like the periapt).
| Kai_G |
Boots of Earthen Flesh
2,205 gp
These boots are made from rock troll hide and have soles made of elemental earth, granting the wearer a +4 bonus to CMD to resist bull rush, reposition, and trip combat maneuver attempts. If an opponent is airborne or waterborne, the wearer instead takes a -4 penalty to CMD to resist bull rush, reposition, and trip combat maneuver attempts, as well as on attack and damage rolls against those opponents.
As a move action, the wearer can gain fast healing 1. For every 10 points of healing thus gained, the wearer must make a DC 20 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Dexterity damage as the wearer's skin becomes increasingly petrified. Ending the effect requires a DC 13 Fortitude save as a full-round action and the wearer is staggered for 1d4 rounds after ending the effect.
If the amount of Dexterity damage the wearer has taken ever equals or exceeds the wearer's Dexterity score, the wearer does not immediately fall unconscious but instead is affected by a Stone to Flesh effect (no save).
| Pizza Lord |
Boots of Earthen Flesh
...
I like the method you used to counter the constant out of combat healing.
If the amount of Dexterity damage the wearer has taken ever equals or exceeds the wearer's Dexterity score, the wearer does not immediately fall unconscious but instead is affected by a Stone to Flesh effect (no save).
Presumably you meant flesh to stone. The intent was obvious. Also, at 0 Dexterity your are just unable to move and are basically helpless/immobile, you don't normally become unconscious.
A character with a Dexterity score of 0 is incapable of moving and is effectively immobile (but not unconscious).
Obviously it can't be edited now, but I mention it in case you reprint, post, or plan to publish any of your items later (if only for your own campaign's benefit.)
| Pizza Lord |
Also, at 0 Dexterity your are just unable to move and are basically helpless/immobile, you don't normally become unconscious.
Sorry, I misread the ability as dropping Dex, I had thought it was ability drain, it's ability damage which doesn't actually affect the ability, only adds in penalty. It does say it drops them unconscious. You were right.
| Kai_G |
Presumably you meant flesh to stone. The intent was obvious. Also, at 0 Dexterity your are just unable to move and are basically helpless/immobile, you don't normally become unconscious.
Sorry, I misread the ability as dropping Dex, I had thought it was ability drain, it's ability damage which doesn't actually affect the ability, only adds in penalty. It does say it drops them unconscious. You were right.
I did mean Flesh to Stone. Thanks for the catch.
The text does say it drops them unconscious, but I would normally play it appropriately to the ability and have it be something like paralysis.
I like the method you used to counter the constant out of combat healing.
Thank you. I'm trying to balance the items between my perspective as a GM to balance them, but also my Player perspective to make the item still desirable. Free unlimited healing was something the developers originally stated was supposed to be a no-go, but here we are. If players want to buy the full item in my game, I'll allow it. That just tells me what kind of game they want to play. I'd just compensate with time pressure. Otherwise, this item makes it a thematically appropriate gamble and encourages player agency. "Which is more important to you right now, hit points or ability points? If you start this, how long do you think it'll take to stop?"
I've never been a fan of items that just come and go because Players don't want them around (too comical or just GM f***-you's)and items shouldn't be stealing the spotlight from players and player agency. A cursed item CAN be an obstacle, but it should be used by antagonists as such (Example: a cursed decoy for the MacGuffin the party is after), not just as something random (Example: Random loot drop from an Ankheg encounter in its warren).
What do you think of the cost for the cursed version?
| Pizza Lord |
What do you think of the cost for the cursed version?
I think the price is in the area that I would expect. I normally would just round it to something, rather than leave an odd 5 gp on there. I would most likely keep it at half the cost of the original, or 2,500 gp for ease of calculations.
Additionally though, there are differences between your item and boots of the earth (which is fine, they don't have to be identical) but I wanted to make sure. BotE add both their bonuses and the fast healing when the wearer uses a move-action to set themselves on the ground. Your boots only give the fast healing when the wearer sets themselves.
Otherwise, they provide a constant +4 bonus at all times, regardless of what the wearer is doing (as written). It doesn't matter if the wearer is standing, sitting, laying down, flying, climbing, or swimming; they could be running around and getting the bonus against AoO trip attempts (which I would consider a bit too divergent from the magic items original intent, even for a variant of the item). Only if their attacker is the one not on the ground would they receive a penalty. Cost-wise, a constant, all-the-time bonus would greatly increase the item's price (even though the original item seems like it could grant it indefinitely, the wearer is basically locked in place while it's in effect).
Of course, your boots don't mention not being able to move after taking the move-action to start fast healing, so it's entirely possible you are going for a more noticeable divergence, in which case, that's fine. I only mention it to make sure you didn't overlook the linked item's function.
| Kai_G |
Kai_G wrote:What do you think of the cost for the cursed version?I think the price is in the area that I would expect. I normally would just round it to something, rather than leave an odd 5 gp on there. I would most likely keep it at half the cost of the original, or 2,500 gp for ease of calculations.
Additionally though, there are differences between your item and boots of the earth (which is fine, they don't have to be identical) but I wanted to make sure. BotE add both their bonuses and the fast healing when the wearer uses a move-action to set themselves on the ground. Your boots only give the fast healing when the wearer sets themselves.
Otherwise, they provide a constant +4 bonus at all times, regardless of what the wearer is doing (as written). It doesn't matter if the wearer is standing, sitting, laying down, flying, climbing, or swimming; they could be running around and getting the bonus against AoO trip attempts (which I would consider a bit too divergent from the magic items original intent, even for a variant of the item). Only if their attacker is the one not on the ground would they receive a penalty. Cost-wise, a constant, all-the-time bonus would greatly increase the item's price (even though the original item seems like it could grant it indefinitely, the wearer is basically locked in place while it's in effect).
Of course, your boots don't mention not being able to move after taking the move-action to start fast healing, so it's entirely possible you are going for a more noticeable divergence, in which case, that's fine. I only mention it to make sure you didn't overlook the linked item's function.
I was sticking to the theme of earth/rock-like weight and stability, a difficulty in forcibly moving the creature. The ground contact part was too complicated in action. Does it still make sense if the character is standing on a roof? It's still got its feet planted on the 'ground' to the extent that it's not flying or swimming. In the end, I decided it was easier to get rid of that complication in favor of the penalties against certain foes, keeping with the Earth Mastery penalties of Earth Elementals. All of this, of course, made the item a bit more divergent.
| Kai_G |
Esobok Blade (v2.)
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th
Slot none; Weight 8 lbs.
STATISTICS
Alignment N; Ego 7; Senses 60 ft., Darkvision
Int 5, Wis 14, Cha 15
Communication empathy
Special Purpose Slay Undead
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 9th, concentration +11)
Detect Undead - At Will
DESCRIPTION
Created by a death-worshipping cult of Sarkorian mystics in the service of Pharasma, Lady of Graves, Esobok Blades contain the bound spirits of bestial Esobok psychopomps. These weapons are carved with the letters of the long-forgotten language that grace the most ancient tombstone of the Boneyard and resemble the curved blades of adamantine scythes carried by Vanth psychopomps. This resemblence is more than superficial, as the spirits only serve those who share the philosophical views and purposes of their former Vanth masters.
Esobok Blades function as +1 Undead-bane Greatswords. These weapons are neutral intelligent weapons, but not particularly powerful ones, and most PCs who claim it as their own shouldn’t have much of a problem keeping it in line.
Unruly Nature: If the item manages to seize control through personality conflict, it directs its possessor to attack the nearest undead creature. If no such creature is present, then it directs its possessor to attack the nearest living creature. Regardless of the target, its possessor continues to fight until unconscious or dead or until no living thing remains within 30 feet, at which point the Esobok Blade relinquishes control back to the possessor. If wielded by a person who wears a Mask of the Vanth, the Esobok Blade loses its Unruly Nature.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 3,197gp; Feats Craft Magic Arms and Armor; Spells summon lesser psychopomp
Mask of the Vanth
Slot head; Weight 4 lbs.
STATISTICS
Alignment N; Ego 13; Senses 60 ft., Darkvision
Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 16
Communication empathy
Special Purpose Protect the natural cycle of mortality
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th, concentration +16)
Deathwatch - 3/day
DESCRIPTION
These masks were originally meant to aid in controlling the sometimes brutal nature of Esobok Blades by echoing the presence of their Vanth masters. However, those who attempted to claim the authority of the Vanth as their own soon found themselves under psychopomp influence and serving the interests of the Lady of Graves.
When worn, this vulture skull funerary mask of polished ceramic melds to the wearer’s face, making his gaze ever-baleful and his voice inhumanly hollow, granting a +10 competence bonus on Intimidate checks, but takes a -20 penalty to Diplomacy checks. The wearer's voice also carries unnaturally far. When speaking, even in a whisper, any creature within range can hear the wearer with a Perception DC of –10, regardless of the wearer’s Stealth. Silence and similar effects can suppress this effect for their duration.
If worn by a person who wields an Esobok Blade, the Mask of the Vanth increases its Ego by 7.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 4,123gp; Feats Craft Wondrous Item; Spells bestow curse, summon vanth