Monk / Brawler Dip For Dragon Disciple Bloodrager?


Advice


I am toying with a character concept that is kind of a hybrid of my first two PFS characters.

Xane is a retired human Dragon Disciple (Sorcerer4/Fighter1/Dragon Disciple7) who towards the end of his career used his claws and bite attacks more than his kukris and falcata. A very melee Sorcerer with OP bloodline abilities thanks to his Robe of Arcane Heritage.

Ionna is a human Fighter (Fighter7/Brawler2) who started as a walking armory but evolved to focus on her glaive-guisarme and some kicks.

My new concept meshes this somewhat as a Draconic Bloodrager with a polearm & kicks in regular combat and claws & spells during bloodrage. (Unfortunately RoAH doesn't work with Bloodragers) The character would be their child from the future or something similar.

That said, I'm stuck on how exactly to get the Unarmed Strikes. A few options come to mind, though I'm unsure which would work better.

A) Take Improved Unarmed Strike as one of my regular feats over the levels with Punishing Kick once I qualify and go either pure Bloodrager or Bloodrager5/Dragon Disciple 7

B) Blood Conduit archetype for IUS and progress as A

C) Dip Brawler for IUS and increased damage to d6 as well as Martial Versatility and then go either dualclass or prestige class

D) Dip Hungry Ghost Monk for IUS, increased damage to d6, and PK @ 1st and then go either dualclass or prestige class

A and B would work better for going Dragon Disciple as there's no extra spellcasting/bloodline level lost but come with only d3 unarmed strike damage.

C keeps a full BAB until deciding on wether to prestige or not and has added versatility and hd compared to D, but must still wait until 9th to get PK.

D gives me everything I want rightaway but with lower BAB and some dead abilities as I'm likely to wear armor.

Anyhoo, I'm looking for advice on which of these options works best for my concept (or if you have a better one) as well as how well Bloodrager and Dragon Disciple mix.


I'm currently playing a fairly casual campaign with a lvl8 bloodrager/dragondisciple and it's working pretty great. I ended up getting some extra wis and dex and taking IUS as a regular feat. Then I built into feral combat training and dragon style resulting in some pretty decent damage.

The build doesn't really leave any room for int, so I'm just enjoying the opportunity of not having to think about anything you do.

I'm not sure if the build is PFS legal though. Some of if may be legal only through GM leniency.


I'm currently working through building her as a Bloodrager/5, Scaled Fist & Hungry Ghost Monk/1, Dragon Disciple/6. I picked up Legacy of Dragons today for Scaled Fist as well as some feats and traits, not to mention the flavour. A bunch of the book is really meh or even completely unplayable, but the things I bought it for are decent enough.

Helpful Things For My Character:
Scaled Fist makes it so my Punishing Kick scales off CHA instead of WIS and adds Dragon Style to my list of bonus feats at 1st.

I'm liking the Draconic Destiny trait. +2 to stabalization checks and hit point loss doesn't kill me until 2 more than negative CON.

Draconic Manifestation feat as a metallic dragon bloodline gives me a 10ft aura of courage in bloodrage. I'm debating pushing Power Attack back for Draconic Heritage. Swift action resist 5 to 1 energy type that doesn't have to be the same as my bloodline dragon.

I freaking LOVE the Draconic Heritage Visual Guide on the inside cover!!

Currently my stats are shaping up to be 14/12/15/13/12/14


I'm not sure the draconic heritage feat is worth taking. Not sure that the resistance you get there stacks with the one you get from your bloodline, and I'd rather use the swift action on arcane strike.

As for the monk dip, I think I'd rather take the pure scaled fist archtype. If you're going for feral combat training and dragon style, you need stunning fist to qualify for dragon ferocity.

I'm curious about is how you are justifying the monk dip from a thematic point of view though. The bloodrager hulking out just doesn't strike me as very monklike.


Think of the Monk level as an attempt to keep her rage under control that doesn't quite work as her parents wanted to. Her mother has a couple of Brawler levels, and Beawler is a hybrid of fighter and monk. Plus, 1d6 damage to her kicks instead of 1d3.

Also, her primary fighting style is based of her mother's, who used Punishing Kick to keep opponents at the reach of her Glaive-Guisarme. This new character simply does so earlier and with a Bardiche.

If I kept Stunning Fist, I'd have to wait for 11th level for the +8 BAB to qualify for Punishing Fist. The other Dragon Style feats are indeed impressive, but I won't be going for Feral Combat Training. My Flurry of Blows will turn off in armor.

In the end, the dip in Monk gives me everything I wanted right away rather than wait until endgame. That said, I think I may need to make a full Scaled Fist in the future.

As for Draconic Heritage, it says nothing about using the exact same choice of dragon as any Bloodline class would give you. So if I have the Gold Dragon bloodline from Bloodrager giving me fire resistance, Draconic Heritage can give me, say, electricity resistance from a Bronze Dragon. It's a neat idea to show more than one draconic influence in your blood. Chromatic, Drake, and Linnorm also have neat options, though I believe Chromatic is not PFS legal.

I forgot all about Arcane Strike. I may have to pick that up @ 5th.


I'm assuming you have a playstyle in mind other than the "Yell, charge and flail until everything is dead" I usually end up going for with my dragonrager. If I'm assuming the style correctly, you kick the enemy back 5 feet, full attack then 5' step back to deny them a full round? Does that work consistently against hostile melee creatures who usually have fort coming out their ears?

If you're set on dipping monk, I can't see a better archetype than the scaled fist for that sweet cha-scaling (though I still lean more towards using the massive strength and natural weapons for all they're worth (mostly because I'm unreasonable proud about somehow making that build work))

As for your full scaled fist, have you considered building a succubus scaled fist to bring the grappling succubus to life?


Greeeit wrote:
As for your full scaled fist, have you considered building a succubus scaled fist to bring the grappling succubus to life?

Someday when I can find a group to play home games with, I must do this!


Greeeit wrote:
I'm assuming you have a playstyle in mind other than the "Yell, charge and flail until everything is dead" I usually end up going for with my dragonrager. If I'm assuming the style correctly, you kick the enemy back 5 feet, full attack then 5' step back to deny them a full round? Does that work consistently against hostile melee creatures who usually have fort coming out their ears?

That is the style I'm after, and it works because there is NO save on the pushing back. The Fort save is for when they're being knocked prone instead of pushed back.

There will be more yelling and screaming than when the mother did this, but then she doesn't have a rage class feature.


It's not about the rage on your character sheet, it's about the rage in your heart =/

K-kun the Insane wrote:
The Fort save is for when they're being knocked prone instead of pushed back.

You seem to be correct... Who would ever have thought properly reading a feat would do any good?


...And 5 days later I have a potential build

Child of Xane Dunestrider & Ionna Schönheit:

{Name to be determined}
Female Human (Chelaxian) from Jalmeray

Racial Traits
+2 CON
Bonus Feat
Draconic Heritage (xSkilled)
-Low-light vision
-Darkvision 10ft

Character Traits
Draconic Destiny (Social): +2 to stabalization checks and die at 2 more than negative CON
Child of Two Peoples (Race): +2 Will vs charm & compulsion and speak both parents ethnic languages (Osiriani)

STR 14
DEX 13
CON 15
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 14

Archetypes
Scaled Fist & Hungry Ghost Monk

1) Bloodrager/1: Bloodrage, Fast Movement, Bloodline (Draconic/Gold), Claws, -Dodge, -Draconic Manifestation

2) Monk/1: Draconic Might, Punishing Kick, AC Bonus, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, -Improved Unarmed Strike, -Punishing Kick, -Dragon Style

3) Bloodrager/2: Uncanny Dodge, -Mobility

4) Bloodrager/3: +1 CON, Blood Sanctuary

5) Bloodrager/4: Bloodcasting, Magic Claws, 5 Fire Resist, +1 Natural Armor, -Spring Attack, -Eschew Materials

6) Dragon Disciple/1: Blood of Dragons, +1 Natural Armor

7) Dragon Disciple/2: +2 STR, Dragon Bite, -Combat Expertise, -Power Attack

8) Bloodrager/5: + 1 CHA, Improved Uncanny Dodge, #Shield

9) Dragon Disciple/3: Breath Weapon 2/day, 1d8 Claws, 10 Fire Resist, +1 Natural Armor, -Whirlwind Attack

10) Dragon Disciple/4: +2 STR, +1 Natural Armor

11) Dragon Disciple/5: Blind Sense 30ft, -Raging Vitality, -Blind-Fight, #Resist Energy

12) Dragon Disciple/6: +2 CON,+1 CHA

Primarily fights with a Bardiche and Unarmed Strikes, switching to Claws during Bloodrage.

I was actually having trouble with my Feat choices until I thought of Whirlwind Attack. That said, it eats up a lot of feats and it requires me to have an INT item by 7th. I'm not too thrilled about that...

Scarab Sages

Have you considered bloody knuckled rowdy as an archetype for bloodrager? It would pretty much eliminate the need for the monk dip, which isn't really giving you that much.


Imbicatus wrote:
Have you considered bloody knuckled rowdy as an archetype for bloodrager? It would pretty much eliminate the need for the monk dip, which isn't really giving you that much.

I did, yes, but the entire point of the dip is to get Punishing Kick BEFORE 11th. With the dip I have it @2nd and it scales off my CHA.


K-kun the Insane wrote:

...And 5 days later I have a potential build

** spoiler omitted **

I was actually having trouble with my Feat choices until I thought of Whirlwind Attack. That said, it eats up a lot of feats and it requires me to have an INT item by 7th. I'm not too thrilled about that...

I just realized I can't edit posts hours later to avoid double posting...Hm, I also just realized that I had wanted Arcane Strike but didn't put it in this potential build. It seems Whirlwind Attack just eats too many feats...Oh well, back to the drawing board.

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