I'm in the midst of creating a Monk of the Empty hand, and am having a slight bit of confusion. I've found numerous MoTEH threads, and I think I understand it, but there is one topic I've not seen addressed: Thrown weapons with MoTEH.
First, I'd like to clarify my findings for if I'm understanding these correctly:
1) Do MoTEH take a penalty for fighting with Improvised weapons?
According to James Jacobs in his AMA thread, they do not:
James Jacobs wrote:
LoreKeeper wrote:
Dear James Jacobs:
True or false? Monks of the empty hand take a -4 penalty to attacks when wielding improvised weapons.
The monk of the empty hand treats improvised weapons as if she were proficient in them, and can wield normal weapons as improvised weapons. This effectively has the same end effect as the Catch Off-Guard feat, but isn't a feat and thus doesn't use up a feat slot since it's a variant class ability. Thus, they do not take a nonproficient penalty when using improvised weapons. The text is not as clear as it could have been, I guess, but hopefully common sense can step in to bolster that if someone doesn't read this post?
(We COULD have simply said, "The monk of the empty hand gains "Catch Off-Guard" as a bonus feat, I guess, but that would have lost the flavor bit about how they often wield normal weapons as improvised weapons.)
However, he does go on to say that the MoTEH does not gain Catch off-guard or throw anything as bonus feats for the purposes of acquiring other feats:
James Jacobs wrote:
If the monk wants the feats themselves (perhaps to qualify for other feats, or because the monk wants the extra stuff those feats grant), they'd have to get the feats normally, yes.
2) Do the MoTEH damage equivalencies map to non-weapons?
Again, no, they act like normal improvised weapons:
James Jacobs wrote:
KleptoWithADDMotEH wrote:
I apologize if this has been answered already... but I was wondering if you could clarify, a monk of the empty hand... if they pick up a random item (from a quill to a mug etc)... do you treat it as an improvised weapon? or do you break it down to the three listed items? OR are those three weapon equivalents only for a monk of the empty hand that chooses to pick up an actual weapon?
Those three weapon equivalents are for weapons only. Non weapons like quills and mugs are treated as normal improvised weapons.
3) Does the MoTEH benefit from any properties of a weapon that is now considered improvised?
I'm seeing a no on this one too, both magical and standard weapon properties (such as reach):
James Jacobs wrote:
MisterSlanky wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Nope. If you use a weapon as an improvised weapon, you're not using it as it was intended to be used. You thus don't gain any of the trip, reach, disarm, whatever type benefits granted by the weapon.
While the monk of the empty hand is versatile in what he can use as weapons... he's NOT very versatile in the TYPES of weapons he uses. His combat maneuver tricks come from feats and class abilities, not the weapons he gets to use.
Going a step further with this, what about magic weapons? What happens if a monk of the empty hand wants to use a +2 two-handed sword as an improvised weapon. Does it provide its bonuses? Is it even considered "magical" for beating DR. What if said weapon were a bow rather than a melee weapon, would things change?
No bonuses. In the hands of a monk of the empty hand, a +4 keen vorpal longsword is no different than a broken scimitar.
4) Can Weapon focus help a MoTEH at all?
Not really:
James Jacobs wrote:
LoreKeeper wrote:
My apologies for bothering again, but back to the monk of the empty hand: Is there a way for him to benefit from weapon focus for his improvised weapon attacks? I suspect "Weapon Focus (improvised)" does not count. But if the monk took Martial Weapon Proficiency (quarterstaff), then Weapon Focus (quarterstaff); would his attacks with two-handed weapons (which function as an improvised quarterstaff) benefit from the Weapon Focus (quarterstaff) feat?
...by extension, can the monk take Martial Weapon Proficiency (quarterstaff) at level 1 and become a monk of the empty hand and a weapon adept (quarterstaff)?
Nope; Weapon Focus specifically requires a weapon to focus on. "Improvised weapon" is a HUGE category of weapons... an analogy would be taking Weapon Focus (slashing weapons). Best you could do, I suppose, would be to pick the type of improvised weapon you'd be using most often and take the Weapon Focus in that feat—say, Weapon Focus (broken bottle) or Weapon Focus (folding chair).
If the monk took Weapon Focus in an actual weapon, he'd only gain the bonuses when using THAT weapon, not a weapon that emulates the weapon.
Unless, of course, you have a generous GM.
5) Does a MoTEH weapon proficiencies preclude having other proficiencies? i.e. Can a MoTEH never learn to use other weapons? It seems absurd, some threads have come to that conclusion. Based on the following post, though it addresses a different topic, lends itself to yes, they can learn other weapons:
James Jacobs wrote:
LoreKeeper wrote:
A new book (the awesome campaign setting!) a new question: does the monk of the empty hand benefit as beautifully from Dervish Dance as I imagine it? In other words, can an empty hand monk flurry a scimitar and use Dexterity for attack and damage? Naturally the scimitar is reduced to a 20/x2 weapon, rather than 18-20/x2. A side question: how does the "piercing" aspect of the Dervish Dance interact with the monk of the empty hand? (I assume that the feat is a more-specific override of the general rule that the archetype provides.)
The monk of the empty hand can only benefit from Dervish Dance if he is proficient with the scimitar, and uses the scimitar as a scimitar, NOT as an improvised weapon. If the monk of the empty hand uses a scimitar as an improvised weapon using his class ability, it's no longer being used as a scimitar, and thus he gains no benefit at all from Dervish Dance whatsoever. So the piercing aspect doesn't interact at all with the monk of the empty hand.
The only way to gain the benefits of Dervish Dance is to use a scimitar as a scimitar. Which the monk of the empty hand can only do by NOT using his empty hand improvised weapon abilities.
6) Now, for the unanswered question(s): Can a MoTEH flurry of blows with thrown improvised weapons? Based on the answer to 1), yes? Would it be the range increment 10ft and do damage as the improvised weapon? AKA if I throw a short sword as an improvised weapon in a flurry, will it do 1d6 damage? Can I use the lvl5 power to amplify the damage of said thrown improvised weapon?
Thanks to any who took the time to read all of this and for any comments on if I'm interpreting these correctly
