losing claws and fast movement due to alter self

[Natural 1s]

Will my character lose his claws (gained by 1 level dip in draconic bloodrager) and fast movement when using Alter self to change to Charau-Ka?

The rules for Magic – Transmutation – Polymorph

state wrote:

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function.

I am inclined to read the rules in a way that fast movement and claws will remain because they are added by the class feature. But I am not sure.

[Lady-J]

as they are both a class feature no you wont lose them just like how a draconic bloodline charau ka bloodrager will have them

[Natural 1s]

thanks

[Derklord]

It has nothing to do with class features or not.

Fast Movement works because it is explicitly independant from your race/form.
Claws work because you only grow them while raging. If you'd gain permanent claws from a class feature, you'd lose them while polymorphed.

[Lady-J]

Derklord wrote:

It has nothing to do with class features or not.

Fast Movement works because it is explicitly independant from your race/form.
Claws work because you only grow them while raging. If you'd gain permanent claws from a class feature, you'd lose them while polymorphed.

you still count as that class and having that class feature while polymorphed and would retain them tho unless there was a clause in a specific polymorph effect that says the polymorph suppresses said class feature

[Derklord]

"[Y]ou lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (...)" There it is. They even spelled it out that it also applies to class features: "You also lose any class features that depend upon form (...)"

A bloodrager would retain both Fast Movement and the ability to grow claws, because neither is is depedant on his original form.

[Lady-J]

the only things that are dependent on form are racial stuff not class stuff unless your a synthesis summoner as i know of no other class features dependent on form other than the edolon

[Diego Rossi]

Derklord, if you are a member of a class with permanent claws granted by the class, you lose them because of Alter self, but then you get them back because you are still a member of that class even in the new form.

[Orfamay Quest]

Lady-J wrote:

the only things that are dependent on form are racial stuff not class stuff unless your a synthesis summoner as i know of no other class features dependent on form other than the edolon

Er, spellcasting. If you polymorph into a shape without hands (or a shape without the ability to speak), you lose the ability to cast spells. While you're unlikely to be able to do that with alter self, you can easily do that with more powerful shapechanging magic.

Similarly, I'd probably rule that if you shapeshifted into an ooze (e.g. a gelatinous cube) you would lose the ability to grow your claws, because you don't have arms or legs on which to grow them.

[Snowlilly]

Orfamay Quest wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

the only things that are dependent on form are racial stuff not class stuff unless your a synthesis summoner as i know of no other class features dependent on form other than the edolon

Er, spellcasting. If you polymorph into a shape without hands (or a shape without the ability to speak), you lose the ability to cast spells. While you're unlikely to be able to do that with alter self, you can easily do that with more powerful shapechanging magic.

Similarly, I'd probably rule that if you shapeshifted into an ooze (e.g. a gelatinous cube) you would lose the ability to grow your claws, because you don't have arms or legs on which to grow them.

You do not lose the ability to cast spells, you lose the ability to complete the verbal and somatic components.

Silent/stilled spells still work, as do all psychic casters.