Magus vs Spell Dancer and Dimensional Agility


Advice


So currently we started a new campaign and I'm playing elf magus (dervish dancer). I can't make my mind between standard magus and spelldancer. I really love the fluff of spelldancer but it seems a suboptimal choice. I don't think extra mobility is worth it in exchange for enhancing weapon. There are spells like expeditious retreat and bladed dash. Losing extra feat hurts even more. However at 9th level spelldancer can once per spelldance use dimension door as a spell-like ability.

If I take dimensional agility, that would allow me to effectively pounce and cast shocking grasp in same round.

Combat starts:
1st round: start spelldance, cast intensified shocking grasp (hold charge)
2nd round: use dimension door SLA to reach BBEG. Initiate spell combat and attack. Hopefully hit on one of the first two attacks for 9d6 SG + d6 scimitar. After 1st two attack cast empowered intensified SG as part of spell combat and attack. that is another 13d6+d6. If I would have a spell storing weapon and intensified shocking grasp there it would be another 9d6. For a total of 31d6 +2d6 + static modifiers.

1) Is using Dimensional Agility with DD as SLA allowed or does it need to be casted as a spell (meaning I can do combo at level 11 earliest instead of 9).

2) Would this combo be worth losing the ability to enhance my weapon (normal magus can't do the same thing without investing 3 feats and can reach it at level 15 earliest).

Thank you.

P.s. I'm not interested in playing kensai, hexcrafter or any other archetype. Basically it's straight magus vs spelldancer.


Your scenario has a problem. "Holding the Charge: ... If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates."

1) An SLA should be fine since Dimensional Agility calls DD out by name.

2) As to whether it's worth it - it's not a power combo, no. Especially if retraining feats is allowed - then the standard magus can do the same thing just one level later.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Hamenaglar wrote:
I really love the fluff of spelldancer but it seems a suboptimal choice. I don't think extra mobility is worth it in exchange for enhancing weapon.

You are correct, this archetype is a downgrade compared to straight Magus.

Quote:
1) Is using Dimensional Agility with DD as SLA allowed or does it need to be casted as a spell (meaning I can do combo at level 11 earliest instead of 9).

By a strict reading, no - although it would be reasonable for the GM to allow it anyway.

Quote:
2) Would this combo be worth losing the ability to enhance my weapon (normal magus can't do the same thing without investing 3 feats and can reach it at level 15 earliest).

Here's the thing: your combo is certainly flashy, but it doesn't generally need dimension door. As early as level 2, any Magus can in a single turn cast DD, then move his full speed, then land the attack. In most combats you'll be able to reach your target without teleporting, especially when you have haste up.

At level 10, a normal Magus would use Dimdoor to land a full attack (hasted, and with a flaming shocking bane weapon), not to land a shocking grasp.


@Avr

I'm not casting a spell, but using a spell-like ability. I don't think that should count against holding the charge. But I'm not sure.

No retraining feats.

@Kurald

How can a Magus at level 2 cast DD? Or did you mean cast Shocking grasp, move, then attack. Also using dimension door, means forfeiting all your actions. Unless you are interpreting that casting dimension door as part of spell combat allows you to still take your attacks. Otherwise dimensional agility (level 11) is needed.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Hamenaglar wrote:


How can a Magus at level 2 cast DD? Or did you mean cast Shocking grasp, move, then attack.

It's a typo, I meant SG.

Quote:
Otherwise dimensional agility (level 11) is needed.

You take it at level 10 by retraining. Then yes: declare spell combat, cast DD to teleport, then make all your attacks.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Hamenaglar wrote:
I'm not casting a spell, but using a spell-like ability. I don't think that should count against holding the charge. But I'm not sure.

Here's the thing: you can't have it both ways. You can't have your SLA count as a spell to qualify for the feat, then have it not count as a spell for holding the charge. One way or another, this doesn't work.

Hamenaglar wrote:
How can a Magus at level 2 cast DD? Or did you mean cast Shocking grasp, move, then attack.

It's a typo, I meant SG.

Quote:
Otherwise dimensional agility (level 11) is needed.

You take it at level 10 by retraining. Then yes: declare spell combat, cast DD to teleport, then make all your attacks.


Kurald Galain wrote:


Here's the thing: you can't have it both ways. You can't have your SLA count as a spell to qualify for the feat, then have it not count as a spell for holding the charge. One way or another, this doesn't work.

Yes, I agree. It can't be both way. Per RAW having DD as SLA wouldn't allow me to take dimensional agility. I would have to wait until level 11. But then combo would be possible?

Kurald Galain wrote:


You take it at level 10 by retraining. Then yes: declare spell combat, cast DD to teleport, then make all your attacks.

No retraining so far.

Thank you.


Kurald Galain wrote:
Quote:
1) Is using Dimensional Agility with DD as SLA allowed or does it need to be casted as a spell (meaning I can do combo at level 11 earliest instead of 9).
By a strict reading, no - although it would be reasonable for the GM to allow it anyway.

Dimensional Agility can be used if you have DD as an SLA.

FAQ wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

Only if the pre-requisite calls out the name of a spell explicitly. For instance, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat. However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells".

posted February 2015


Snowlilly wrote:


Dimensional Agility can be used if you have DD as an SLA.

FAQ wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

Only if the pre-requisite calls out the name of a spell explicitly. For instance, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat. However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells".

posted February 2015

So, the question then that remains is whether using spell-like ability such as dimension door cancels holding the charge.

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