Smite Impudence


Rules Questions


The antipaladin archetype Insinuator gets this particular form of Smite. Each day he can invoke an outsider, which must be one step away from his own alignment. His alignment must be any evil. That explained! Smite impudence, among other details, states:

Quote:
"An insinuator cannot use smite against a target that shares an alignment with the outsider he has invoked for the day."

If an insinuator has a LN invocation for the day, can she not smite LG NG LN N CN LE? Since those all have either lawful or neutral within them? Or can she not smite LG LN N CN LE since those are alignments on the same axis? Or does the phrase "shares an alignment" mean that single alignment, so she can't smite LN creatures?

In defense of the last line, if I was told my NG character shares an alignment with a NE enemy I'd heartily disagree. It may or may not be a turn of phrase, sharing an alignment. If asked if my NG cleric of Iomedae shares an alignment with the deity I'd say no, that it's one step away. But by RAW I would share the good alignment.

On a different but related note, the class can form a bond much like a regular antipaladin, but with an outsider of the invoked alignment. Summon Monster has no lawful neutral outsiders at all. As well as a single chaotic neutral outsider. Then a handful of NG or NE outsiders. What's my point? Well, since the smite & summon class features depend on the invoked alignment, then that would mean a LE insinuator could never smite a CE creature due to having to summon LE outsiders. But a NE insinuator could invoke one of a plethora of neutral outsiders and smite the CE creature. And hey, I can admit that such a thing just feels wrong.

Any thoughts on if a LE invocation can smite a CE creature? Does the smite just ban smiting of the same alignment? Or does RAW rule this one?


I'd say that neutral on the lawful/chaotic axis is different than neutral on the good/evil axis. Thus, a LN character can smite NG, CG, NE, and CE, but not smite LG, LE, TN, and CN. "Neutral" is not one alignment component that exists on two axes, it is two separate alignment components that exist on two separate axes, but share a single name.

As for the Invocation class feature outsider, you do not need physically meet the outsider to form a bond. You do not summon an outsider, you simply invoke them. You make a deal, maybe in prayer, and if they give you the green light, then you get your aligned Antipaladin powers. You do not need Summon Monster or more expensive spells such as Planar Ally to contact outsiders in this manner. And there are plenty of LN outsiders that aren't on the Summon Monster list, which means that it will not be incredibly difficult to contact them. The Invocation class feature never mentions you needing to use Summon Monster or select an outsider patron off the Summon Monster list.

However, the lack of summonable monsters will mean that your 5th level Ambitious Bond Outsider Servant will be limited to animals with the Fiendish/Celestial template. Summon Monster hasn't been adjusted yet for the Resolute (Lawful, Bestiary 2), Entropic (Chaotic, Bestiary 2), and Counterpoised (True Neutral, Champions of Balance) templates, but you could probably houserule them in unless you're playing PFS.


I like the thought that despite sharing the same name, that NG N & NE wouldn't be the same kind of neutral as LN N CN. Probably even correct. Wish it'd say somethin' like horizontal or vertical neutral, heh.

I know the insinuator only has to pray to the patron, not actually meet, no worries there. I might not've explained myself too well. I mentioned summon monster not for the Invocation class feature, just the Outsider Servant class feature. Since it says it works like the regular antipaladin bond, which works like Summon Monster.

B/c of the wording the Ambitious Bond: Outsider Servant has to be an outsider. Fiendish or celestial animal summons not an option. Nor are resolute and the others since none change the creature type to outsider. Thus at level five a LE Insinuator has no summon options at all, save for taking a feat like Summon Evil Monster. Which seems ridiculous, to need a feat just to get a class ability to work.


Huh. Guess I confused "outsider" with "native to another plane".

Under those wordings, yeah, you can't get lawful Outsider servants. But that doesn't preclude you from being able to smite CE creatures. Your 5th level class feature simply doesn't work if you attune to LN.


Well, a level five LE Insinuator has no natural Outsider Servant options at all... Summon Monster naturally has no LN, LE, or NE outsider options for a fifth level Insinuator. It doesn't matter what alignment he invokes.

But as for Smite Impudence! Let's say that the Insinuator invokes a LE outsider. He can't smite a creature that, "shares an alignment," with that outsider. Does that really mean no smiting LG LN LE NE CE? Or as I opined earlier, is sharing an alignment a colloquialism (In that no CG character asked if he shares an alignment with Rovagug would say yes)? So that it means the Insinuator wouldn't be able to smite LE creatures only, and can smite anything else?


Your alignment is specific. if your alignment is LN any reference to your alignment means exactly LN. It would say something along the lines of "shares a component of your alignment" if it meant to read broader than that.


Whoa... I always read it as "shares an alignment component". That's a way stronger trade than I thought! Also nice to not force the GM to decide things like "NG or CG?" on the spot.

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