Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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So did the Unchained and Non-Unchained barbarian just get better at damage reduction than the Invulnerable rager archetype can offer if you focused for DR?
Only briefly within the scope of PFS:
Up to 8th level: IR wins
9th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 4, DR 8 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 1, DR 3 when raging. Costs 2 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 1, DR 5 when raging. Costs 2 rage powers.
10th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 5, DR 10 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 2, DR 5 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 2, DR 8 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.
11th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 5, DR 10 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 2, DR 6 when raging. Costs 4 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 2, DR 8 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.
So the core barbarian only passes them at 11th level, and only by giving up 2 level 10 plus rage powers. Also since the Unchained barbarian is now maxed, the invulnerable rager will slowly close the gap on him, and will end with one less point of DR, but 3 more rage powers.
Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
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So did the Unchained and Non-Unchained barbarian just get better at damage reduction than the Invulnerable rager archetype can offer if you focused for DR?
Only briefly within the scope of PFS:
Up to 8th level: IR wins
9th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 4, DR 8 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 1, DR 3 when raging. Costs 2 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 1, DR 5 when raging. Costs 2 rage powers.10th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 5, DR 10 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 2, DR 5 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 2, DR 8 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.11th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 5, DR 10 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 2, DR 6 when raging. Costs 4 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 2, DR 8 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.So the core barbarian only passes them at 11th level, and only by giving up 2 level 10 plus rage powers. Also since the Unchained barbarian is now maxed, the invulnerable rager will slowly close the gap on him, and will end with one less point of DR, but 3 more rage powers.
and look what you have to give up for IR barbarian now...
I think this just kills the archetype, very disappointing.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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So did the Unchained and Non-Unchained barbarian just get better at damage reduction than the Invulnerable rager archetype can offer if you focused for DR?
Only briefly within the scope of PFS:
Up to 8th level: IR wins
9th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 4, DR 8 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 1, DR 3 when raging. Costs 2 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 1, DR 5 when raging. Costs 2 rage powers.10th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 5, DR 10 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 2, DR 5 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 2, DR 8 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.11th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 5, DR 10 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 2, DR 6 when raging. Costs 4 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 2, DR 8 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.So the core barbarian only passes them at 11th level, and only by giving up 2 level 10 plus rage powers. Also since the Unchained barbarian is now maxed, the invulnerable rager will slowly close the gap on him, and will end with one less point of DR, but 3 more rage powers.
and look what you have to give up for IR barbarian now...
I think this just kills the archetype, very disappointing.
Not really. I had an invulnerable rager before this. I never put rage powers into DR. I gave up uncanny dodge, but that was very rarely an issue. Even before the FAQ, I can take:
8th level Unexpected strike or +1 DR? no contest.
10th level Third Totem power or +1 DR? Again, no contest.
12th level Come and get me or +1 DR?
Yeah. No. I'm good.
Also, all that improved DR is nice and all, but unless you took the feat that let you rage while flatfooted, it isn't going to do you a lot of good until it's your initiative.
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As someone who never even considered additional DR on my invulnerable rager, I'm perfectly fine with IR being the set it and forget it DR build. There's so many good rage powers that the extra DR just doesn't seem worth it. I guess by that same measure, they could have just left it alone, since I was never going to take it. If anything, I'm more disappointed that Aldori Caution isn't legal, as it's the easy way to max out a Stalwart build with DR 15/- at level 11. Or 18, in the case of the unchained barbarian, though this requires a bit of retraining.
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No Player-versus-Player Combat -already explained the negative effects on the character
The goal of Pathfinder Society Organized Play is to provide
an enjoyable experience for as many players as possible. One player being all cool and striking from the dark while 5 other people stumble around isnt
Player-versus-player conflict only sours a session. While
killing another character might seem like fun to you, it
certainly won’t be for the other character’s player. Even if
you feel that killing another PC is in character for your PC
at this particular moment, just figure out some other way
for your character to express herself. In short, you can never
voluntarily use your character to kill another character—
without their consent. - Unless you ascribe to the idea that you can leave a fellow party member at -10 hit points, bleeding, and covered in BBQ sauce in front of the monsterwithout violating tehe no PVP rule you could easily be killing them because of teh severe penalties associated with being blind.
Note that this does not apply to
situations where your character is mind-controlled by an
NPC and is forced by that NPC to attack a fellow Pathfinder.
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I'm actually a little surprised that killing is the only thing that's banned as PvP.
It's not. That's just a really legalistic interpretation of a document that's even more plain language than the rest of the game. As bolded, the intent and RAW is to prevent player vs player conflict via the proxy of characters fighting each other
So did the Unchained and Non-Unchained barbarian just get better at damage reduction than the Invulnerable rager archetype can offer if you focused for DR?
Only briefly within the scope of PFS:
Up to 8th level: IR wins
9th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 4, DR 8 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 1, DR 3 when raging. Costs 2 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 1, DR 5 when raging. Costs 2 rage powers.10th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 5, DR 10 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 2, DR 5 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 2, DR 8 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.11th level:
Invulnerable Rager DR 5, DR 10 vs non lethal. On all the time, costs no rage powers.
Barbarian DR 2, DR 6 when raging. Costs 4 rage powers.
Unchained Barbarian: DR 2, DR 8 when raging. Costs 3 rage powers.So the core barbarian only passes them at 11th level, and only by giving up 2 level 10 plus rage powers. Also since the Unchained barbarian is now maxed, the invulnerable rager will slowly close the gap on him, and will end with one less point of DR, but 3 more rage powers.
Then make judicious use of those spare rage powers to pick up the regenerative vigor chain so that fast healing/DR combo closes the net hp loss per round gap, and guarded life, greater guarded life and flesh wound to let you use your higher DR when it counts by converting damage to non lethal.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Yeah that's the kind of answer where I think everyone else is the jerks at that point.Everyone else at the table is 'jerks' because they:
Want to be able to see?
Want to not lose their Dex bonus to AC?
Want to move at normal speed?
Want to not get sneak-attacked?Edit: This is a knee-jerk reaction?
Want the fights to not last 2 hours?
Want the session to not run into overtime because you have more than one fight?I have a deeper darkness guy, and I reserve using it.
The effectively blind players might not have fun spending the game in such a state.
This is one of the things you drop when things get real.
It is a jerk move dropping it every fight without a whim for how the other players feel.
I always ask how the other players feel about me dropping it before I do.
Yeah once again its really obnoxious as to how this discussion got derailed because what I was proposing doesn't really blind players unless they are ridiculously new to Pathfinder and don't have the most common standard ways to counteract mundane darkness. You can drop darkness all the live long day now its really not going to affect anyone at all. That's kind of why its a knee jerk reaction.
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Yeah once again its really obnoxious as to how this discussion got derailed because what I was proposing doesn't really blind players unless they are ridiculously new to Pathfinder and don't have the most common standard ways to counteract mundane darkness. You can drop darkness all the live long day now its really not going to affect anyone at all. That's kind of why its a knee jerk reaction.
Having been at two tables in the middle-higher PFS levels where *no one* had an answer for darkness, and darkness was encountered kind of sours one on this 'common standard ways'.
If the character has NEVER had cause to deal with a thing, then they may not know they need to deal with it, and using knowledge 'out of the box' could be considered metagaming and/or cheating.
A player is not their character.
A character's play career should influence their equipment, skill, spell, and whatnot choices.
Also, Oil of Daylight costs 750 gp, defeats darkness, and would be considered a two-way trollish activity, as a player using darkness could now be *forcing* someone to use a 750gp expendable when they don't need to, and it then negates what they are doing.
Potion of Darkvision is better at 300gp, but still, players being *forced* to use consumables to not get screwed...
Sure, the last two cases would turn it from PvP to 'Stop being a raging b#$&$!##'.
Explore. Report. Cooperate.
It's not hard. If the party says 'no', 'please don't do a thing', don't do a thing. Don't grumble that you're being restricted on your play as a result, work with the party.
Who knows, maybe there'll be a situation that will come up where it will be handy. But *communication* is important, and information ammunition.
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If the character has NEVER had cause to deal with a thing, then they may not know they need to deal with it, and using knowledge 'out of the box' could be considered metagaming and/or cheating.
A player is not their character.
A character's play career should influence their equipment, skill, spell, and whatnot choices.
My -22 is not my -2 , but my dash 22 has surely benefited from the experience of him and those like him who have explored and then REPORTED on what they found, so if dozens of pathfinders drag whats left of their party back to absolom and say "we ran into this problem " then the people that go after them take something to deal with that. The rookie cop has a badge a uniform a flashlight a gun a tazer pepper spray, handcuffs an extendo stick a knife and a multitool because other cops have said "i needed to do x and didn't have anything to do that with" even if he personally has never had to stumble around a dark field looking for someone.
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My -22 is not my -2 , but my dash 22 has surely benefited from the experience of him and those like him who have explored and then REPORTED on what they found, so if dozens of pathfinders drag whats left of their party back to absolom and say "we ran into this problem " then the people that go after them take something to deal with that.
Then that should be in the mission brief. Not everyone's experience is going to be the same.
I have L1-3 that have prepared for every contingency because of their play experience.
I have L5-9 that haven't because it's not in the range of experience for them.
The rookie cop has a badge a uniform a flashlight a gun a tazer pepper spray, handcuffs an extendo stick a knife and a multitool because other cops have said "i needed to do x and didn't have anything to do that with" even if he personally has never had to stumble around a dark field looking for someone.
Light club, crossbow, dagger, manacles, adventurer's multitool, wayfinder.
None of these things counteract darkness.
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Buy a belt that has con on it. A belt of physical perfection +4 with str and con could be reasonable.Hmm. Normally I'd laugh and say "too expensive." However, I have the +2 version of the belt already, so I only need to pay 30000 for the upgrade to +4. And I previously purchased Mask of the Mantis, which I think isn't allowed in PFS and must be refunded.
If I do that, I have exactly 30000 in cash, and it costs 30000 to do it, so maybe that's the best option.
ring of blinkingI don't like that Blink imposes a 20% miss chance for ME as well. However, I do like the "miss chance" concept in general (when I can impose it on the bad guys), and since I can't wear the cloak or use the ring, it seems like maybe a wand of Blur is the best option. It's only 4500 GP, it lasts 3 minutes, I can UMD it, and it has no downsides that I can see. Decent option.
Or you could take Blind-fight as one of your now freed up feats and go with the Ring. That should minimize the chance of not being able to hit people because of the 20% miss chance.
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Then that should be in the mission brief. Not everyone's experience is going to be the same.
No. it is not remotely metagaming or cheating by having your characters that are part of a society dedicated to archeology and exploration have a good idea of what you need to encounter common problems. It's not in the mission briefing because its something you should be generally aware of like don't lick strange plants, never stick any part of your body into an inter-dimensional rift, and anything that glows black is probably not something you want to to cuddle. Be prepared for darkness, damage reduction, and swarm is pathfinder 101, which your character should have attended.
The field guide even includes "society suggestions" for what pathfinders tend to know about different types of hazzards, even if they've never seen it themselves.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Then make judicious use of those spare rage powers to pick up the regenerative vigor chain so that fast healing/DR combo closes the net hp loss per round gap, and guarded life, greater guarded life and flesh wound to let you use your higher DR when it counts by converting damage to non lethal.
Oooo.... I missed flesh wound... I need to take that, that is going to be fun.
At higher levels you're pretty much unkillable via hp loss.