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So had this come up last session...
Party had finally made it to the BBEG fight. This gist of which is a powerful demon arrives to destroy the party, unless they can destroy an evil artifact first. The wizard in the party decided on his turn that he would climb on the platform with the artifact, impact a Bead of Force at his feet and voluntarily encapsulate himself, thus putting him and the artifact in a Resilient Sphere and buying him time to destroy the artifact. Simple right? Well part of his plan was to summon Lantern Archons to help him destroy the artifact. Well I looked at the item and the spell and ruled that he cannot summon creatures into the sphere with him. The basis for my decision was the line in the description of Bead of Force; "Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, ". Although the item simulates a Resilient Sphere spell, there are some glaring differences to the actual spell effect. Such as it is target-able by Dispel magic, cannot be damaged by any means short of Disintegrate, Rod of Cancellation et al. Also I looked at main purpose of the item which seems more in effect to capture enemies. It would stand to reason that an item that is used to capture someone shouldn't also allow them to get out by teleport, DD, Plane Shift etc. Also even though I cannot find any actual reference to summoned creatures being teleported under Conjuration Summoning, there is a mention of summoned creatures under teleport sub-school, although there is no specific mention that Summoned Creatures are teleported it stands to reason they must get to where they are going somehow. Regardless, the way I read Bead of Force is other than the few specific ways to either destroy or get around this specific version of Resilient Sphere that it creates, nothing can get in or out via any means.
In the end I capitulated as the encounter was quickly falling apart, however I was wondering if I was wrong or right in ruling that nothing should have been able to get in or out? What are your thoughts?
Nerfherder, you have misread Resilient Sphere and Bead of Force. There is no difference between them. Bead of Force functions exactly like a Resilient Sphere cast at level 10. Both are subject to Dispel Magic.
Once thrown, a bead of force functions like a resilient sphere spell (Reflex DC 16 negates) with a radius of 10 feet and a duration of 10 minutes.
Pizza Lord is correct, Force effects do not block astral travel (such as Teleportation).
Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.
Force Effects only extend to the Ethereal plane, not the Astral plane.
As for summoning, the general conjuration (summoning) rules do not specifically state that summoned creatures come from another plane or from elsewhere on this plane. However, Summon Monster does state that the creatures are extraplanar and thus they would come from another plane. Since the Ethereal plane is not mentioned the summon would not be blocked by a force effect unless line of effect is blocked.
If you are not inside it then the line of effect is blocked. If you are outside of it then line of effect is blocked.
I did some further checking, it appears there is one difference, the Resilient Sphere resulting from a Bead of Force is not subject to damage.
Once again this is the result of incomplete conversion by Paizo.
Back in 3.5 Resilient Spheres and Walls of Force were immune to damage. They changed that in Pathfinder but failed to adjust the Bead of Force appropriately.
A globe of shimmering force encloses a creature, provided the creature is small enough to fit within the diameter of the sphere. The sphere contains its subject for the spell’s duration. The sphere is not subject to damage of any sort except from a rod of cancellation, a rod of negation, a disintegrate spell, or a targeted dispel magic spell. These effects destroy the sphere without harm to the subject. Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, though the subject can breathe normally. The subject may struggle, but the sphere cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within.
It functions like an Otiluke’s resilient sphere spell (Reflex DC 16 negates) with a radius of 10 feet and a duration of 10 minutes. A globe of shimmering force encloses a creature, provided the latter is small enough to fit within the diameter of the sphere. The sphere contains its subject for the spell’s duration. The sphere is not subject to damage of any sort except from a rod of cancellation, a rod of negation, disintegrate, or a targeted dispel magic spell. These effects destroy the sphere without harm to the subject. Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, though the subject can breathe normally. The subject may struggle, but the globe cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within.
The explosion completely consumes the bead, making this a one-use item.
A globe of shimmering force encloses a creature, provided the creature is small enough to fit within the diameter of the sphere. The sphere contains its subject for the spell’s duration. The sphere functions as a wall of force, except that it can be negated by dispel magic. A subject inside the sphere can breathe normally.
The sphere cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within.
Once thrown, a bead of force functions like a resilient sphere spell (Reflex DC 16 negates) with a radius of 10 feet and a duration of 10 minutes. A globe of shimmering force encloses a creature, provided the latter is small enough to fit within the diameter of the sphere. The sphere contains its subject for the spell’s duration. The sphere is not subject to damage of any sort except from a rod of cancellation, a rod of negation, disintegrate, or a targeted dispel magic spell. These effects destroy the sphere without harm to the subject. Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, though the subject can breathe normally. The subject may struggle, but the globe cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within. The explosion completely consumes the bead, making this a one-use item.
So, the 3.5 Bead of Force was identical to the 3.5 version of Resilient Sphere. Neither could be damaged and you could use teleportation to escape a Resilient Sphere.
In Pathfinder they changed the spell and made very minor tweaks to the item (removed the name "Otiluke's" added 'once thrown') so the wording is basically identical. Paizo failed to change the item to match the spell so that it can be damaged like the Resilient Sphere can. However, you can still teleport out of a Bead of Force or Resilient Sphere.
This sort of mistake has occurred in a number of places in the CRB. The Bead of Force should function as the spell Resilient Sphere in all respects except for delivery method (60' thrown).
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"Once thrown, a bead of force functions LIKE a resilient sphere spell (Reflex DC 16 negates)" emphasis mine. Again it doesn't specifically state that it functions as the spell, albeit I will concede that there may have been some editing problems, but without a FAQ update I cannot confirm this. However I still cannot get around the fact that RAI seems to indicate that the Spell Resilient Sphere reads more as a defensive spell and the item Bead of Force reads as an offensive item (it does damage, it is thrown like a ranged weapon) I can't feel that the encapsulating effect of the item is not meant for capturing enemies and therefore it wouldn't makes sense that the item would allow means for egress and the like.
The player in question used and offensive item to simulate the spell as written. The item specifically states nothing can get into or out of the sphere. Unfortunately in a rules heavy game like PF words are very important and that is how I make DM adjudications, based on wording interpretation. Was I being unfair?
you seem to want this one item to work perfectly against all creatures everywhere, but for the most part, that's not how the game works...
There are far more creatures that WILL NOT have a way out of a bead of force, than there are creatures who have a prepared exit strategy (dimension door, teleport, plane shift, etc). Knowledge Checks should help provide the party this information.
Nerfherder, "like a resilient sphere" is basically text for "go check Resilient sphere making changes as written here".
Ultimately, the general rule is that force effects do not block astral travel spells. A Bead of Force would need to specifically state otherwise and it does not do so. The clause "nothing can get into or out of" does not contradict the actual rule.
As a result, the force effect created by a Bead of Force does not block astral travel effects.
Put another way: physically being unable to get into or out of does not translate to being unable to teleport into or out of.
I provided the history that shows that even in 3.5 you could get out of the resilient sphere (worded identically to the bead of force) via teleport because the general rules for force effects stated you could and the spell (and magic item) did not specifically contradict that.
The same is still true in Pathfinder. You can absolutely 100% teleport into and out of a Resilient Sphere or Bead of Force because the rules state you can.
Whether your on the spot ruling is 'fair' or not is up to you and your players. This is the rules forum, we can only discuss the rules. :)
"Once thrown, a bead of force functions LIKE a resilient sphere spell (Reflex DC 16 negates)" emphasis mine. Again it doesn't specifically state that it functions as the spell, albeit I will concede that there may have been some editing problems, but without a FAQ update I cannot confirm this. However I still cannot get around the fact that RAI seems to indicate that the Spell Resilient Sphere reads more as a defensive spell and the item Bead of Force reads as an offensive item (it does damage, it is thrown like a ranged weapon) I can't feel that the encapsulating effect of the item is not meant for capturing enemies and therefore it wouldn't makes sense that the item would allow means for egress and the like.
The player in question used and offensive item to simulate the spell as written. The item specifically states nothing can get into or out of the sphere. Unfortunately in a rules heavy game like PF words are very important and that is how I make DM adjudications, based on wording interpretation. Was I being unfair?
I don't think "unfair" is the right term. Unfair suggests an inequality or inconsistency in application of the rules. You are stating not only your logic for having applied your ruling but also the philosophy that is underlying your logic. The only way it would be unfair would be if you didn't apply the same methodology to your other rulings.
What I think you're wondering is whether your ruling was reasonable or, if you're looking for a stronger endorsement, correct.
Reasonable? There is enough ambiguity that were I playing at your table I wouldn't be upset about it. I disagree with your interpretation but that's moot.
Correct? I can't say that I think you are correct. I think that given the history of Pathfinder, how it stems from 3.5, how often inconsistencies have been found in the CRB due to text not being consistently handled when brought in from 3.5, and the fact that the team took the time to modify the spell but did not remove the "like" language from the bead, all leads me to believe that the bead is truly intended to function like the spell and that the language difference is unintended. Morever I personally place far more importance on that "like" statement. If something is supposed to function "like" something else, except as noted it should function just like that something else. Neither the bead nor the spell have text that says that teleports or summons are necessarily restricted. Force effects do not extend to the astral. The rules do not, in my opinion, support your stance.
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Thanks for the input guys as always enlightening. Unfortunately I think I was sandbagged by my player and as it turned out his actions might have ended up turning the encounter from going good to a TPK. As it stands I capitulated and allowed him to summon monster, they still ended up losing 2 characters but in the end saved the day!