Contradiction between Core Rulebook and Ultimate Magic on stacking dodge bonuses

[137ben]

The Core Rulebook says

Quote:

Dodge Bonuses: Dodge bonuses represent actively avoiding blows. Any situation that denies you your Dexterity bonus also denies you dodge bonuses. (Wearing armor, however, does not limit these bonuses the way it limits a Dexterity bonus to AC.) Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.

The magic chapter "combining magical effects" section, however, states

Core Rulebook wrote:

Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the one with the highest strength applies.

Haste grants a +1 dodge bonus to AC. If you repeatedly caste haste, the intro to the magic chapter says that the dodge bonuses don't stack, even though dodge bonuses normally stack. Specific overrides general, so going by the Core Rulebook alone, repeated casting of haste does not grant you an arbitrarily high AC, as the dodge bonuses from each casting of haste do not stack.

However, Ultimate Magic contradicts this line of reasoning. In the Designing Spells section, Ultimate Magic states

Quote:

Spells and magic items should never grant dodge bonuses because dodge bonuses always stack, and it would be a simple matter to stack various low-power items or spells with small dodge bonuses and get an incredibly high Armor Class more cheaply than by achieving that AC using the armor, deflection, enhancement, and natural armor bonuses in the game.

If Ultimate Magic is correct, then repeated castings of Haste would have their dodge bonuses stack (the speed bonus still wouldn't stack, because that is an Enhancement bonus, and enhancement bonuses never stack with each other). If Ultimate Magic is correct, then both the CRB magic introduction and the Haste spell are in error. On the other hand, if the CRB is correct, then the line in UM stating that spells never grant dodge bonuses due to potential stacking abuse is wrong.

At least two other spells are potentially affected by any ruling on this contradiction. Blessing of Fervor (Advanced Player's Guide) and Extreme Flexibility (Advanced Class Guide) both grant dodge bonuses. Extreme Flexibility was written after UM, suggesting either that it is a mistake, or that the UM rule has been overturned (if UM was ever even correct in the first place).

[UnArcaneElection]

I don't claim to be a rules expert, but the various "Designing {Whatever}" sections have some guidelines that are missing a few screws and/or contradict other Paizo stuff (the Advanced Race Guide Race Points system comes to mind for giving really weird results, and the thing for designing new archetypes comes to mind for contradicting several Paizo archetypes, particularly for Fighter).

The advice against granting a straight Dodge Bonus is actually sound, but obviously doesn't cover the age-old Haste spell. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that what they should have said was that spells should not directly grant a Dodge Bonus, but can grant a non-stacking bonus that converts to a Dodge Bonus for the purpose of stacking with other bonuses and interacting with things that interact with Dodge bonuses after the highest such bonus granted by a spell, spell-like ability, or magic item has been selected (and probably should add supernatural effect to this as well).

[CampinCarl9127]

Dodge bonuses stack.

The effects of haste do not stack.

Specific overrides general.

[Ferious Thune]

Dodge bonuses stack. Dodge bonuses from the same source (the haste spell) do not stack. What the section in Ultimate Magic is saying is that if several different spells granted dodge bonuses, then they would stack. So they caution against creating those spells.