What are esoteric dragons?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I saw them on the d20pfsrd, but it just have the stats, no text to explain us what are those dragons.

What is their origin? Are they psionic dragons? Do they behave different?

Silver Crusade Contributor

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They're from Bestiary 5, but there's not much more there; dragons get fairly little setting-info. These got one sentence a piece (which d20pfsrd has faithfully transcribed).

Each has its own origin/preferred haunts, but we know very little else. They do cast as psychics rather than sorcerers.

Liberty's Edge

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Esoteric means hidden knowledge after all ;-)


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I bet some of them are really big.


The Raven Black wrote:
Esoteric means hidden knowledge after all ;-)

Hahaha!

Nice one.

Scarab Sages

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The Raven Black wrote:
Esoteric means hidden knowledge after all ;-)

They actually each have full page write-ups of fluff. It's just that they're scattered throughout Bestiary 5 in an elaborate code embedded in the number of vowels per page.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Duiker wrote:
They actually each have full page write-ups of fluff. It's just that they're scattered throughout Bestiary 5 in an elaborate code embedded in the number of vowels per page.

It would take someone with a beautiful mind to crack that code.


Dragons seem to adapt to whatever location they find themselves in. So countless generations ago, some dragons wandered into the the Astral and Ethernal Planes and either decided to stay or got stuck there.

Why would they go there? We don't have any definitive info, but it seems to me that this dragon migration stuff is best explained by a bunch of dragons trying to get out of the Dawn Age Dragon Civil War. Mostly because traveling the planes (or outer space like B4's dragons) requires resources (even for dragons), so it isn't likely that this was to escape competition with other dragons, and if it was just a couple of dragons individually doing it, outer space and the planes are very big (and the odds of finding mates are very small). Escaping the Apsu vs. Dahak brawl would explain why powerful dragons would leave in groups to exotic locations.

Hopefully B6 will give us Heaven dragons and Hell dragons and Boneyard dragons and similar such critters.


Alzrius wrote:
Duiker wrote:
They actually each have full page write-ups of fluff. It's just that they're scattered throughout Bestiary 5 in an elaborate code embedded in the number of vowels per page.
It would take someone with a beautiful mind to crack that code.

Do you mind if I shave first, and maybe call mother, just to make sure it's okay, I really don't want her breaking my balls over it.


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Back to the topic.

They're just dragons, that went to some exotic planes, managed to survive there, adapted, then evolved and now use psychic magic instead of arcane magic, right?


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cablop wrote:

Back to the topic.

They're just dragons, that went to some exotic planes, managed to survive there, adapted, then evolved and now use psychic magic instead of arcane magic, right?

Less went there, and more like "They're native to there." They really are just planar dragons except on the 'esoteric' planes. Astral dragons on the Astral plane, Etheric dragons on the Etheric plane, and Dream and Nightmare dragons in the Dimension of Dreams. Occult dragons are the only ones you can find roaming around pretty much anywhere there is occult and esoteric knowledge to be found. And yes, they all use psychic magic.


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Mark Seifter was happy to share some fluff for Esoteric Dragons in the Bestiary 5 discussion thread!

Mark Seifter wrote:

Astral Dragon: It is said that when these dragons reach a venerable age, instead of dying they give a deep exhale and dissipate into the Astral winds, creating hurricanes of thought.

Dream Dragon: They observe the dreams of others, and pilfer information and the strange artifacts left behind by dreamscapes. Subtle of mind and whimsical of philosophy, they can be frustrating conversationalists, as they skip through ideas like daydream.

Etheric Dragon: Silent hunters that dwell in the remote reaches of the Ethereal Plane, these dragons eat both the living and the undead. Etheric dragons rarely speak, and many other dragons consider them dull, if not stupid. They are neither. Their priorities are just confined to the necessities of existence within their harsh, uncompromising environs. Unlike many true dragons, even their hoards are secondary. While they collect and amass treasure, if that treasure threatens their survival, etheric dragons abandon their hoards and start gathering anew.

Occult Dragon: Unlike most dragons, occult dragons, hoarders of occult lore and items, prefer to conduct their daily activities in humanoid form. They dwell in large urban centers, often mixing in with their humanoid neighbors as they search for esoteric secrets and psychically charged artifacts. In times of great need, they revert to their true form, either to gain some bit of occult treasure, or to protect the communities they call home.

And just as a little exercise, I decided to create some expanded fluff for each species to inspire ways to use them in an adventure:

Fan-made fluff:
Astral Dragons: Astral dragons will barter with travelers for knowledge, but are hard to impress. While not quick to violence, they are still prideful creatures and will stand up to any boasting challengers.
Dream Dragon: Dream dragons detest the denizens of Leng, that strange realm that occasionally spills over into the Dimension of Dreams. A dream dragon tolerates no creatures of Leng to pass through their territory.
Etheric Dragon: Denizens of the Ethereal Plane fear the hunger of the etheric dragon and regulate their travel around the creature’s feeding patterns. The arrival of an etheric dragon into a new land may be seen to the local creatures as a threat to their ecosystem, even as a misunderstood malevolent beast.
Nightmare Dragon: Nightmare dragons love to draw out as much agony as they can from their prey’s nightmares before finally consuming them. A nightmare dragon will not start an unprovoked fight with a dream dragon – but if the dream dragon is ever attacked or wounded by another creature, the nightmare dragon will gleefully gang up upon its rival species.
Occult Dragon: Occult dragons may interact with mortals as esoteric advisors, but are always concerned with preserving their true identities. An occult dragon that has its secret uncovered may move to a new settlement, but on rare occasions they may grant quests to those who shares its interests in occult knowledge.


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Athel wrote:

Mark Seifter was happy to share some fluff for Esoteric Dragons in the Bestiary 5 discussion thread!

Mark Seifter wrote:

Astral Dragon: It is said that when these dragons reach a venerable age, instead of dying they give a deep exhale and dissipate into the Astral winds, creating hurricanes of thought.

Dream Dragon: They observe the dreams of others, and pilfer information and the strange artifacts left behind by dreamscapes. Subtle of mind and whimsical of philosophy, they can be frustrating conversationalists, as they skip through ideas like daydream.

Etheric Dragon: Silent hunters that dwell in the remote reaches of the Ethereal Plane, these dragons eat both the living and the undead. Etheric dragons rarely speak, and many other dragons consider them dull, if not stupid. They are neither. Their priorities are just confined to the necessities of existence within their harsh, uncompromising environs. Unlike many true dragons, even their hoards are secondary. While they collect and amass treasure, if that treasure threatens their survival, etheric dragons abandon their hoards and start gathering anew.

Occult Dragon: Unlike most dragons, occult dragons, hoarders of occult lore and items, prefer to conduct their daily activities in humanoid form. They dwell in large urban centers, often mixing in with their humanoid neighbors as they search for esoteric secrets and psychically charged artifacts. In times of great need, they revert to their true form, either to gain some bit of occult treasure, or to protect the communities they call home.

And just as a little exercise, I decided to create some expanded fluff for each species to inspire ways to use them in an adventure:

** spoiler omitted **...

Nice! That sheds some additional light, small, but light on the topic. I like the concept of the Occult Dragon and your addition as it being esoteric advisors. In fact i start thinking of an ally of my PCs that is a dragon in human disguise... It could work, it could.

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