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Ok it says in the section on Feat Retraining that
You may change one feat to another through retraining. Retraining a feat takes 5 days with a character who has the feat you want. The old feat can't be one you used as a prerequisite for a feat, class feature, archetype, prestige class, or other ability. If the old feat is a bonus feat granted by a class feature, you must replace it with a feat that you could choose using that class feature.
SO my question is can I retrain a Feat that was used as a prerequisite if it has become redundant?
Here is my Example, I have a Fighter/Duelist, I plan to take a few Levels of the Swashbuckler Archetype Shackles Corsair. Once I do, I will have both Weapon Finesse and Swashbuckler Finesse, and would like to retrain Weapon Finesse as it will have become redundant.
Seeing as how the hybrid classes are new and you probably would have taken Swashbuckler had it been an option at the time (correct me if I'm wrong), it is only fair that you be allowed to simply retrain that Weapon Finesse Feat.
So in essence you took Fighter then Swashbuckler and then duelist,
On the other hand, if you are just changing your mind and knew you could have taken Swashbuckler from level 1, then I would agree with My Self above.
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PFS?
As per RAW, no. It's a prerequisite feat. There are no little caveats for now-redundant feats.
For your specific situation, you'd probably have to retrain your Swashbuckler level so that it came before your Duelist PRC. That would cost much more time and be much more expensive, but also rules-legal. So all you need to cover is the cost of retraining all your Duelist levels and your Swashbuckler level, twice. I think.
As a houserule, that would be completely fine to allow redundant feat retraining so long as nobody tries to cheese it.
In which order you have taken your feats or class levels isn't relevant to see if your character is a valid character today. So that isn't an impediment.
There is a different possible impediment to what the OP want to do.
Swashbuckler Finesse (Ex): At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefit of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of her Intelligence score as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purpose of meeting feat prerequisites.
This say that the character has the weapon finesse, for meeting feat prerequisites.
Duelist has the feat as a class prerequisite.I think that "or class prerequisites if the class is meant to use light or one-handed piercing melee weapons" was omitted to stay within the word count and because the phrase become awkward, but that omission mean that RAW Swashbuckler Finesse don't count as the feat weapon finesse for class prerequisites.
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Seeing as how the hybrid classes are new and you probably would have taken Swashbuckler had it been an option at the time (correct me if I'm wrong), it is only fair that you be allowed to simply retrain that Weapon Finesse Feat.
So in essence you took Fighter then Swashbuckler and then duelist,
On the other hand, if you are just changing your mind and knew you could have taken Swashbuckler from level 1, then I would agree with My Self above.
The character in my case was made when Ultimate Combat was new. I think it makes sense that one could change feats that have become redundant as there are many times this could come up, as new archetypes have come out that give feats as Class features, like Lore warded and the Unchained Rogue.
In which order you have taken your feats or class levels isn't relevant to see if your character is a valid character today. So that isn't an impediment.There is a different possible impediment to what the OP want to do.
Swashbuckler Finesse (Ex): At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefit of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of her Intelligence score as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purpose of meeting feat prerequisites.This say that the character has the weapon finesse, for meeting feat prerequisites.
Duelist has the feat as a class prerequisite.I think that "or class prerequisites if the class is meant to use light or one-handed piercing melee weapons" was omitted to stay within the word count and because the phrase become awkward, but that omission mean that RAW Swashbuckler Finesse don't count as the feat weapon finesse for class prerequisites.
others have said this, and it doesn't make sense to me. If it said " counts for meeting prerequisites for feats" then that would makes sense. But it says "This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purpose of meeting feat prerequisites" meaning that any option that has Weapon Finesse as a prerequisite feat, then it counts. It doesn't need more words, a class prerequisites would be like Weapon Specialization, you need to count as a fighter to take it.
You should be able to do the indiana jones thing where you replace something with a duplicate.
As long as you're not doing boostrap levitation you should be fine.
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THIS topic is exactly what you're asking. Specifically the linked post gives you an idea of how someone in charge might officially rule it if they were to make an official ruling--but this is his opinion on it.
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But it says "This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purpose of meeting feat prerequisites" meaning that any option that has Weapon Finesse as a prerequisite feat, then it counts. It doesn't need more words, a class prerequisites would be like Weapon Specialization, you need to count as a fighter to take it.
That's your interpretation, and it's a valid one. Just like others have the opposite interpretation, and it is also completely valid. It's not as cut and dry obvious as you're making it sound. Either interpretation makes sense.
Especially when saying "Feat prerequisites" in the way your saying would be redundant. What other prerequisites would it count for, Skill prerequisites for a PrC? To me, it makes no sense to specify "Feat" prerequisites unless you're referring to the prerequisites for a feat.
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But it says "This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purpose of meeting feat prerequisites" meaning that any option that has Weapon Finesse as a prerequisite feat, then it counts. It doesn't need more words, a class prerequisites would be like Weapon Specialization, you need to count as a fighter to take it.That's your interpretation, and it's a valid one. Just like others have the opposite interpretation, and it is also completely valid. It's not as cut and dry obvious as you're making it sound. Either interpretation makes sense.
Especially when saying "Feat prerequisites" in the way your saying would be redundant. What other prerequisites would it count for, Skill prerequisites for a PrC? To me, it makes no sense to specify "Feat" prerequisites unless you're referring to the prerequisites for a feat.
ok so could you cite me another place where the books/prd use the term "Feat prerequisites", because I can't find any. It seem to me that people speaking in game jargon is when I hear terms like that. If it was talking about feats only wouldn't it be "Feat's prerequisites"?
A Duelist has 3 Feat prerequisites(Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse), 2 Skill prerequisites(Acrobatics 2 ranks, Perform 2 ranks), and a BAB prerequisite(+6)
At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefit of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons , and she can use her Charisma score in place of her Intelligence score as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purpose of meeting feat prerequisites.
I don´t see any reason why Swashbuckler Finesse should not count as Weapon Finesse in such a case, especially since it´s even a more upgraded ability. Swashbuckler Finesse is even superior to Weapon Finesse, it does everything Weapon Finesse does and more.
One might also take in account this FAQ.
At the time he retrains Weapon Finesse, he has Swashbuckler Finesse.
Then it´s all about if Weapon Finesse = Swashbuckler Finesse or not.
I don´t see any sane reason besides hair splitting to say it´s not the same. In fact if it counts for prerequs, it works in all ways the same. Why shouldn´t it be like that for a PrC? Only because that possibility is not spelled out? I believe there were enough comments on such stuff from the design team by now.
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At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefit of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons , and she can use her Charisma score in place of her Intelligence score as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purpose of meeting feat prerequisites.I don´t see any reason why Swashbuckler Finesse should not count as Weapon Finesse in such a case, especially since it´s even a more upgraded ability. Swashbuckler Finesse is even superior to Weapon Finesse, it does everything Weapon Finesse does and more.
One might also take in account this FAQ.
At the time he retrains Weapon Finesse, he has Swashbuckler Finesse.
Then it´s all about if Weapon Finesse = Swashbuckler Finesse or not.
I don´t see any sane reason besides hair splitting to say it´s not the same. In fact if it counts for prerequs, it works in all ways the same. Why shouldn´t it be like that for a PrC? Only because that possibility is not spelled out? I believe there were enough comments on such stuff from the design team by now.
It don't do "everything Weapon Finesse does". It don't work with the Elven curve blade (2 handed finessable weapon) and any non piercing finessable 1 handed weapon. There is a debate if it work with light non piercing weapons. So it isn't completely interchangeable with the weapon finesse feat.
This discussion has been had before. Here is the relevant rules text in the 5th paragraph down the page:
When retraining multiple character options (class features, feats, classes, etc.) in one continuous period, all of the new selections are made at the end of that period in an order decided by the player. If this period is interrupted for any reason all choices must be made immediately. In this way players can retrain class features and their prerequisites at the same time.
Normally, you may not retrain prerequisites, but there is an exception if you retrain multiple things at the same time. Do you have anything that depends on Weapon Finesse? If so, retrain that at the same time as your Weapon Finesse retraining and you're good. The GM may even decide to give a discount as per the third paragraph on the same page linked above.