So a sorcerer on one of the tables I play with is wanting to create a spell similar to the ruinaga spell in FFXIII. The GM is busy with work and school so I volunteered to bring back some possible options.
For those of you who are not familiar with it, ruinaga is a typless AoE spell that knocks everyone in the area prone and deals moderate damage.
I'm thinking that the spell fireball is going to be closest to what he is wanting, however just changing the damage to force seems a little overpowered. I was looking up what other people did for similar problems, and they just lowered the dice down one damage step (in the case of fireball, changing 1d6 into 1d4). This is respectable going from an average of 35 to 25 at 10th CL. The other possible solution is keeping the dice the same, but adding a clause that says that it doesn't effect incorpreals.
The next problem would be the prone thing. Once again, this seems pretty strong in Pathfinder. I was thinking of a compramise, and came up with this... Because it is no longer a fire effect melting metal seems wrong. What if we removed that and added a clause similar to "If a creature fails its REF save by more than x it gets knocked prone". Do you think that is overpowered, underpowered, or just right?
And the final problem is thus. This campaign is eventually going to get Mythic Levels, and when it does he will undoubtedly want a mythic version of his spell... For fireball, it increases damage dice and adds a burning after affect on the damaged creatures, and when augmented, increases damage again and bypasses resistances and immunities.
The damage part is easy but what should I do to replace the catching on fire aspect?
Sorry for the long rambling post, but any input would be appreciated. I don't want to super charge his character but I also don't want to make him a useless.
Has he looked at thunderstomp and greater thunderstomp?
I would assume so... but I think the "typeless" damage was his priority and the CC was a fun after effect...
Sounds like he wants the ability for all the wrong reasons.
Another idea is letting him take Toppling Spell.
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Ok, so I've been continuing to look and have slowly crafted a regular and mythic version that I am beginning to like...
School evocation [Force]; Level bloodrager 3, magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3;
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (ball of lead or other dense metal worth 1gp)
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
The ruinaga spell generates a vacuum effect in a single point before detonating with a low roar and deals 1d4 points of force damage per caster level (maximum 10d4) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage.
You determine the range (distance and height) at which ruinaga is to burst. With a flick of your wrist, a golf sized ball streaks from your hand and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the ball of force at that point. An early impact results in an early detonation. If you attempt to send the ball through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.
Ruinaga pushes weak or small creatures and items to the ground. If ruinaga deals damage greater than that creature's CMD it gets knocked prone as if tripped. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, ruinaga may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
The damage dealt increases to 1d6 points of force damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). Any creature that is tripped by ruinaga is also pushed away from the center of the blast in a straight line up to 5 feet per two caster levels. For every size category of the target above Medium, reduce the distance pushed by 5 feet (–5 feet for Large, –10 feet for Huge, –15 for Gargantuan, and –20 feet for Colossal) to a minimum of 0 feet.
Augmented (6th): If you expend two uses of mythic power, the maximum damage increases to 20d6, the area increases to a 40-foot radius spread, and any creature that failed its Reflex save is automatically tripped.
In addition, if moving a creature because of [i]ruinaga[i] would push it into another creature's space and it has at least 10 feet of distance remaining, you can attempt to overrun the other creature, adding your tier on the combat maneuver check. For each creature you overrun with the target, reduce the distance the target moves by 5 feet. If moving the target would push it into a solid obstacle (such as a wall or tree), the target takes damage as if it had fallen the distance pushed.
I'll just lay out the points that I changed...
- I changed the type from fire to force
This was the big one and the main reason why I'm trying to homebrew this spell.
- I changed the components from bat guano and sulfur to a ball of lead
The original components were chosen because they are two things when mixed together are highly explosive, since I am going with a sort of gravity/singularity effect I decided to choose something that was known for being dense.
- I changed the range from long (400 ft. + 10 ft./level) to close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
I decided it need more nerfs and this is one that made thematic sense. If you watch how the characters in FFXIII cast, its always pretty close. Also as long as you toss it close to full range you won't be hit.
- I changed the damage from 1d6 to 1d4
The bigger of the nerfs... The main reasoning is because of the alchemist discovery force bomb. It is the only Pazio thing that I could find that changes damage from fire to force.
- I changed the size of the ball
This is another slight nerf. The original size was of a pea, I just thought this felt more natural for the close range.
- Removed the melting metal, but added the trip
Finally a buff, but this one seems pretty good at first glance. While it is good, it is not INSANE good. If you look at the average CMD for CR, and assuming you are on an average difficulty were your level equals the monsters CR, you won't be able to trip anything unless you get above average rolls, and even then, on the lower levels the monsters will likely die because they have less HP than CMD. I'll add the maths lower down.
- For mythic ruinaga I raised the dice to 1d6
This was a difficult choice, if you follow the same progression as fireball, I should have raised the dice to 1d8. However, as Cyrad pointed out, you should be focusing on the crowd control over the damage. The good news is that raising the dice from 1d4 to 1d6 means that you only have to roll average to be able to trip the monsters of the appropriate CR. Another reason I only changed the dice to 1d6 is because mythic force punch changes its damage from 1d4 to 1d6.
- I added the force punch effect to the spell
Speak of the devil... I really wanted to add a mythic feel to this spell and I thought this was the best way to do that. Honestly, this single effect is really making me love this spell.
- I raised the extra mythic power required to augment and added the mythic force punch to the effect
Once again, something to make it feel MORE mythic. some fun facts... assuming you only gain one mythic tier per level, even if you start at level 1, by the time you can augment this spell, you will have just enough range to cast it without hitting yourself. Another fun fact, on average, at level 20 if the monster fails his reflex save, he will be tripped anyways.
So a quick thing, the damage goes up by 2.5 every level up to 10 (or 3.5 if casting mythic), and a monsters CMD goes up about 1.5-2.5 for every CR. So just from this you can see that if we are using the mythic version are going to catch up eventually. Also something to keep in mind, if the creature has a successful reflex save it cuts the damage in half, which makes it next to impossible to trip the little fella.
Now onto the numbers.
CR 1/Level 1
average damage/max damage- 2/4, 3/6
average CMD/average HD- 11.9/2
CR 2/ Level 2
average damage/max damage- 5/8, 7/12
average CMD/average HD- 14.1/2.8
CR 3/ Level 3
average damage/max damage- 7/12, 10/18
average CMD/average HD- 16.9/4.1
CR 4/ Level 4
average damage/max damage- 10/16, 14/24
average CMD/average HD- 18.4/5.4
CR 5/ Level 5
average damage/max damage- 12/20, 17/30
average CMD/average HD- 21.8/6.8
CR 6/ Level 6
average damage/max damage- 15/24, 21/36
average CMD/average HD- 22.7/8.1
CR 7/ Level 7
average damage/max damage- 17/28, 24/42
average CMD/average HD- 26.1/9.0
CR 8/ Level 8
average damage/max damage- 20/32, 28/48
average CMD/average HD- 27.8/10.5
CR 9/ Level 9
average damage/max damage- 22/36, 31/54
average CMD/average HD- 31.2/11.8
CR 10/ Level 10
average damage/max damage- 25/40, 35/60
average CMD/average HD- 32.2/12.7
CR 11/ Level 11
average damage/max damage- 25/40, 35/60
average CMD/average HD- 35/13.9
CR 12/ Level 12
average damage/max damage- 25/40, 35/60
average CMD/average HD- 35.7/14.7
CR 13/ Level 13
average damage/max damage- 25/40, 35/60
average CMD/average HD- 37.3/16.3
CR 14/ Level 14
average damage/max damage- 25/40, 35/60
average CMD/average HD- 38.5/16.5
CR 15/ Level 15
average damage/max damage- 25/40, 35/60
average CMD/average HD- 43.5/18.5
sorry that's a lot of numbers..
there's the average and max damage for the normal spell and the non-augmented mythic spell. Also the average CMD and average HD. Remember that the HD is their total hit dice, not there total HP. So the bulkier monsters will probably use d10s while the fragile ones will use d6s.
As you can see, if you are just using the non mythic version, it is impossible to trip a creature equal to your level before level 6, and even then you have to be rolling like a god. You slowly get closer until you stop scaling at level 10, and by level 15 it is impossible to trip a monster equal to your CR without metamagic.
If we are using the mythic version you can begin tripping at level 3, although once again you have to being having some seriously good rolls. Level 6 however is the sweet spot for this spell. You are now doing average damage enough to trip most creatures, but they have enough life that it isn't just killing them. Once again, you cap off at level 10, however it is still possible to trip monsters with good rolls all the way past level 15.
I just did the averages/maxes for damage in my head and I got the CMD/HD per CR here
If you have any comments I'd be happy to hear them. This is my first "official" homebrew and I would love to hear what you think, and what would make it better...
I might have to steal this for my games. Loved FFXIII and Ruinaga was a pretty cool spell that I was guilty of spamming with Lightning. Everything looks good to me. Would you be interested in trying a regular Ruin spell?
He was just using magic missile as the Ruin version :/
it deals less damage per shot but you get more shots per round.
I don't think that there was anything special about it besides typeless damage, but it's been a while since I've played FFXIII so my memory could be wrong...