Style feats and weapon use


Rules Questions


Say I'm a monk who wields weapons enchanted with Ki Focus. Would I be able to use those weapons with any Style Feats I posses, such as Dragon Style or Snake Style?

Scarab Sages

No. Ki Focus is quite specific in what it allows to be used by the weapon. It is limited to Ki Strike, Stunning Fist, and Quivering Palm. I'd also allow it to apply to all the other [x] Fist feats in the ACG, or any feats/abilities that replace stunning fist in archetypes but that is a house rule.

That said, Style feats are still useful for weapon users. Dragon Style still lets you charge through difficult terrain and allies. You can still use Snake Style to replace your AC with Sense Motive vs an attack.

Shadow Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:
No. Ki Focus is quite specific in what it allows to be used by the weapon. It is limited to Ki Strike, Stunning Fist, and Quivering Palm.

Not quite.

Ki Focus wrote:
The magic weapon serves as a channel for the wielder's ki, allowing her to use her special ki attacks through the weapon as if they were unarmed attacks. These attacks include the monk's ki strike, quivering palm, and the Stunning Fist feat (including any condition that the monk can apply using this feat).

The list doesn't appear to be exhaustive. Unfortunately it's not completely clear what counts as a "special ki attack" other than Ki Strike, Stunning Fist, and Quivering Palm. In particular, neither Stunning Fist nor Quivering Palm make reference to ki.

I would certainly include any unarmed strike attack that requires a ki pool to use, especially if you must spend ki points to use it. This would include the Unarmed Monk's ki powers such as Elemental Fury or One Touch.

I would also include effects that work like and can replace Stunning Fist (such as Elemental Fist or Touch of Serenity) and believe this is RAI rather than a houserule.

I might even include supernatural monk class features like spirit combat, though I'm less confident that's the intent.

I don't think style feats should work as they don't appear to have even loose thematic connections to ki - they are associated with monks but generally, any character with Unarmed Strike can use them just as effectively.

Imbicatus wrote:
That said, Style feats are still useful for weapon users. Dragon Style still lets you charge through difficult terrain and allies. You can still use Snake Style to replace your AC with Sense Motive vs an attack.

They sure can be. I've got a character with both feats, using a mix of unarmed strikes and a reach weapon, and I've used the styles even in turns when I don't attack with the UAS. However not all style feats are useful in this way - Boar Style for example gives no benefit if you don't use UAS.

Scarab Sages

Weirdo wrote:
They sure can be. I've got a character with both feats, using a mix of unarmed strikes and a reach weapon, and I've used the styles even in turns when I don't attack with the UAS. However not all style feats are useful in this way - Boar Style for example gives no benefit if you don't use UAS.

Even still Boar Shred gives you the ability to Move Action Demoralize regardless of weapon. It's not a great choice for a weapon user, but it could be good for a weapon/unarmed mix, like a Monk of the Seven Winds.

Shadow Lodge

Didn't look that far up the chain. Yeah, I suppose that's some benefit but I wouldn't consider it worth 2+ feats unless you're using UAS consistently (even if not exclusively).

Main point: lots of variation in how useful Style feats are to weapon users or mixed weapon/UAS builds.


You can use pretty much anything with a Blade of the Sword Saint

Let's you flurry at Str x1.5


Gauthok wrote:

You can use pretty much anything with a Blade of the Sword Saint

Let's you flurry at Str x1.5

By this logic, you could enchant pretty much any weapon with this ability and be able to use them with Style Feats and gains the full benefits of the feats. Well, as long as you were a monk. But still, that opens up a world of possibility.

Shadow Lodge

I don't think it works that way.

Blade of the Sword Saint wrote:
This exquisitely forged katana is the result of painstaking attention and craftsmanship by one who is dedicated to mastering swordplay in its highest form. A blade of the sword-saint is a +3 ki intensifying katana. In the hands of a monk, it becomes an instrument of deadly utility. In addition to its more common properties, this weapon can be employed as though the wielder were unarmed: the wielder benefits from feats such as Deflect Arrows or Snatch Arrows (although he can redirect attacks but not catch them if he has no hands free), and a monk treats the blade as a monk weapon for use in his flurry of blows.

"As though the wielder were unarmed" is different from "as though the weapon were an unarmed strike." This is clarified by the phrase immediately thereafter, since Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows require a free hand, not an unarmed strike. Now, this would also allow you to use Crane Wing or Snapping Turtle style as if you had a free hand, but it would not for example allow you to apply Boar Shred's extra damage to the katana strikes.

And the ki intensifying property doesn't allow you to use style feats any more than ki focus does:

Ki Intensifying wrote:

The weapon channels and amplifies the wielder's ki, allowing her to use her special ki attacks through the weapon as though they were unarmed attacks. These attacks include the monk's ki strike, quivering palm, and the Stunning Fist feat. The save DC for ki abilities used through the weapon increases by half the enhancement bonus of the weapon (minimum 1).

After a successful strike with a ki intensifying weapon, the wielder can spend 1 ki point as a swift action to perform a combat maneuver to bull rush, disarm, reposition, or trip as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. Any bonuses or penalties applicable to the weapon attack also apply to this combat maneuver check. The wielder cannot move from her space as a part of the chosen maneuver.

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