Does Daze stop a Bardic Performance?


Rules Questions

The Exchange

perhaps my search fu has failed me, and this has been answered else where, but...

Would the spell Daze cast on the Bard stop his Bardic Performance?

as a side question...

Can a Bard delay if he has a Performance going, and have it's effects continue... or do the effects end when the Initiative get's back to him and he starts to delay?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Rules wrote:
Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action.
Rules wrote:
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

Daze Spell says "This spell clouds the mind of a humanoid creature with 4 or fewer Hit Dice so that it takes no actions. Humanoids of 5 or more HD are not affected. A dazed subject is not stunned, so attackers get no special advantage against it."

Rules Glossary: Conditions wrote:
Dazed: The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.

Yes, being Dazed prevents the bard from using a free action to maintain his performance. However, some other effect like "Lingering Performance" may keep the effects going despite the performance ending.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The first question is easy. It takes a free action to maintain a bardic performance, and a dazed creature can take no actions -- so the bardic performance ends on the dazed bard's turn.

I think delaying would cause a bardic performance to end, but I am less sure of that one.

Scarab Sages

But if the bard took lingering performance, the effects would continue for 2 rounds after being dazed.


nosig wrote:

perhaps my search fu has failed me, and this has been answered else where, but...

Would the spell Daze cast on the Bard stop his Bardic Performance?

as a side question...

Can a Bard delay if he has a Performance going, and have it's effects continue... or do the effects end when the Initiative get's back to him and he starts to delay?

Yes, it would, as he could not use the Free Actions to maintain his Bardic Performance. It even specifically says so in the Bardic Performance section:

Bardic Performance wrote:
A bardic performance cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the bard is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round.

By RAW, as soon as the Bard is hit with a Daze spell, the Bardic Performance ends, full stop, and Lingering Performance kicks in if the Bard has the feat. It makes sense, since a Bardic Performance, regardless of its means of performing, requires a constant and smooth execution. I'm not suggesting that there can't be any slight delays through avoiding or making attacks, but the Daze spell would make the Bard lose track of where he was in his performance, and he wouldn't know where to start, and by the time he figures it out (AKA, when the Daze effect comes off), the performance would by rights be over, and he would need to start anew.

The Bard cannot take any sort of actions if he is Dazed; this includes the option to Delay his initiative in hopes of getting the condition removed to continue the performance. Even if he could, by RAW the performance is already over, and he would have to spend a Standard Action (or whatever action he is able to use) to restart another performance.

Disregarding the Daze spell, many GMs would rule that once it gets to the Bard's Initiative counter, he must spend the action to maintain it, otherwise it ends at the Initiative counter he started it on.

The Exchange

but he would have to spend an action to re-start a performance? sounds right to me...it's what I figured

and now for the Delay timing... I think it is going to be the same thing. But it sort of bugs me... means a Barbarian can rage (and delay) but a Bard can't perform (and delay)...


nosig wrote:

but he would have to spend an action to re-start a performance? sounds right to me...it's what I figured

and now for the Delay timing... I think it is going to be the same thing. But it sort of bugs me... means a Barbarian can rage (and delay) but a Bard can't perform (and delay)...

Yes, after he is no longer Dazed. Lingering Performance would still be going, so he wouldn't have to until the Lingering Performance goes (since the original is still technically active); you couldn't recontinue the Lingering Performance, though.

I disagree. Once a Barbarian initiates a Rage, he's spent a Free Action to Rage, and that means he must continue the rest of his actions there. They also don't spend a Free Action each round to maintain it, which is one of the benefits of Rage, though if they are Dazed, they could not end (or start) their Rage, as they cannot spend the Free Action to do so. (So if they were trying to conserve rounds in the early game...)

The Exchange

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
nosig wrote:

but he would have to spend an action to re-start a performance? sounds right to me...it's what I figured

and now for the Delay timing... I think it is going to be the same thing. But it sort of bugs me... means a Barbarian can rage (and delay) but a Bard can't perform (and delay)...

Yes, after he is no longer Dazed. Lingering Performance would still be going, so he wouldn't have to until the Lingering Performance goes (since the original is still technically active); you couldn't recontinue the Lingering Performance, though.

I disagree. Once a Barbarian initiates a Rage, he's spent a Free Action to Rage, and that means he must continue the rest of his actions there. They also don't spend a Free Action each round to maintain it, which is one of the benefits of Rage, though if they are Dazed, they could not end (or start) their Rage, as they cannot spend the Free Action to do so. (So if they were trying to conserve rounds in the early game...)

But, if the barbarian rages at the start of round 1, say on Init 20, then on round 2, Init 20 he delays until everyone else goes, he still gets the benefits (+2 will save) thru round 2,even if he ends his rage on his turn. One round used, two rounds benefits. Not a major issue... Just bugs me. ;)


In the case of the barbarian, when the init counter arrives at his/her initiative, he/she spends another rage round, wether he/she delays or not. So, two rounds used, two rounds of benefits.

Although it will be more beneficial if he/she does not spend his rage rounds per day delaying.


nosig wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
nosig wrote:

but he would have to spend an action to re-start a performance? sounds right to me...it's what I figured

and now for the Delay timing... I think it is going to be the same thing. But it sort of bugs me... means a Barbarian can rage (and delay) but a Bard can't perform (and delay)...

Yes, after he is no longer Dazed. Lingering Performance would still be going, so he wouldn't have to until the Lingering Performance goes (since the original is still technically active); you couldn't recontinue the Lingering Performance, though.

I disagree. Once a Barbarian initiates a Rage, he's spent a Free Action to Rage, and that means he must continue the rest of his actions there. They also don't spend a Free Action each round to maintain it, which is one of the benefits of Rage, though if they are Dazed, they could not end (or start) their Rage, as they cannot spend the Free Action to do so. (So if they were trying to conserve rounds in the early game...)

But, if the barbarian rages at the start of round 1, say on Init 20, then on round 2, Init 20 he delays until everyone else goes, he still gets the benefits (+2 will save) thru round 2,even if he ends his rage on his turn. One round used, two rounds benefits. Not a major issue... Just bugs me. ;)

As Numarak says, the Barbarian would still fall under the same pretenses. Once it gets to the Barbarian's turn on his Initiative, if he delays, he still expends the round of Rage, because when he originally initiated the Rage, 1 entire round would have passed, and if he chooses to Delay his initiative actions, he would still have Rage active, meaning that's another round he spends Raging.

Another thing is that the Barbarian would have to declare whether he is continuing his Rage or not at the start of his turn; a lot of GMs would probably not accept a Barbarian at the start of his turn, raging, do his entire round's worth of actions, and then end his rage (and therefore save a round while getting the round's worth of actions accomplished with the benefits of rage).

To me, that is the cheesing that you think bugs you, and for that I agree and sympathize. However, any sane GM would put a stop to those shenanigans ASAP; if they don't do otherwise, I would suggest you get that GM checked over.

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