APG Pregen - Feiya

[Nefreet]

Insomnia can sometimes be constructive. Tonight I decided to craft a Pregen version of Feiya, the Iconic Witch. I used the statblock from Master of the Fallen Fortress as a guide and kind of filled in the rest.

Feel free to download it here.

If this sleepless trend continues I might just create one for each of the APG Iconics. I won't be making level 4 or level 7 versions, since those wouldn't be legal.

Let me know what you think =)

[The Fox]

I think I need to go to sleep also. ;)

Looks good. She is solidly built.

I'm wondering why you chose to include Climb in her skills. (Perception I understand because of Alertness.) Is that standard for the pregens? Or was it included in the MotFF stat block?

Also, you might mention in the Witch's Familiar (Ex) that the bonus to Reflex is already included in the stat block.

[Nefreet]

Climb was included in her original statblock, and I initially removed it because I didn't see a reason for it. Then I tried to line up the remaining skills, and it just didn't work. Tossing it back in made everything look pretty again.

Darn. I meant to put an asterisk in there, like I did with the trait. I'll see if I can fiddle with it in the morning (afternoon).

[Nefreet]

Updated list:

Alain, the Iconic Cavalier
Feiya, the Iconic Witch

[The Fox]

Looks good!

You might want to include the effects of the Precise Strike feat on Alain's sheet, so the player doesn't need to look it up.

Everything else seems solid. Good work with these, Nefreet.

[Nefreet]

Thanks! Alain gave me trouble trying to fit everything on the sheet. I couldn't include a couple miniscule effects of his Order, either.

And the rules for Mounted Combat, but those usually take up an entire sheet of their own.

[UndeadMitch]

I don't remember what thread it was in but John mentioned that they were working on a bunch of pregens, more than just the Kobolds. He had mentioned working on pregens and I asked if they might be of the scaly persuasion. He replied, "Those, among many others!" which leads me to believe we're at least getting Occult pregens, and maybe more.

[Michael Brock]

First level characters and their builds are fine since we have rebuild rules in place (BTW, good build there Nefreet). However, 4th and 7th-level versions of these cannot legally be played as official pregens and receive a chronicle sheet, either to be held and applied once your own character reaches that level, nor traded in for 500gp to a new character.

A couple of points:

1) Be careful passing these as an official Paizo PDF. They should instead use a custom layout and design.
2) Community Use License legal text is missing.
3) Should not use the term "Pregen", as this term has official rules meaning in the Guide to Organized Play.

[Nefreet]

Thanks, Mike.

I'll admit, I've never been able to understand the Community Use License. I'll debate rules all day long, but legal text usually goes right over my head. I thought I was safe with these.

My idea was to create APG pregenerated characters in the same style as the existing Pregens (and only level 1's; I understand that). I'll eventually laminate them and add them to our Lodge's collection. I wouldn't be interested in doing it if they had to look drastically different, though.

I left the same copyright line on the bottom that the Core Pregens have. To my understanding, I can't say "fan-created", or any equivalent, because 95% of the material is still Paizo's intellectual property. A couple of the quotes are my creation, but I would never expect credit for them.

Are the ones I have now fine? Or should I take them down?

[Hmm]

Nefreet, these are gorgeous.

Mike, I understand completely the need to protect Paizo's intellectual property and distinguish between fan-created and Paizo-created characters.

However, I do feel that this indicates that a number of us would love to see the APG pregens make an appearance. Perhaps Paizo could hire Nefreet as a contractor if they like his material? Or are official APG pregens in progress?

[Paz]

Nefreet wrote:

Are the ones I have now fine? Or should I take them down?

You're using content from the Community Use Package (the images of Feiya and the PFS logo), so you need to abide by the Community Use Policy. The main change to make to the sheet is to include the boilerplate text (from the usage requirements) at the bottom instead of the copyright line.

The flavour text is fine, as long as it is included in the Paizo blog, as the blog is also covered by the CUP.

[Fomsie]

It would be nice if we ever actually got official APG (+ Magus) pregens to use... especially since they have been made as minis in the Iconics set or in cases. Particularly since an entire new wave, the ACG pregens, have been released already and I suspect the Occult ones will be as well.

[FLite]

Nefreet wrote:

Thanks, Mike.

My idea was to create APG pregenerated characters in the same style as the existing Pregens (and only level 1's; I understand that). I'll eventually laminate them and add them to our Lodge's collection. I wouldn't be interested in doing it if they had to look drastically different, though.

I think you would be fine if you added "Fan Build" across the top above the box, so people can seperate them from the Pregens.

Nefreet wrote:

I left the same copyright line on the bottom that the Core Pregens have. To my understanding, I can't say "fan-created", or any equivalent, because 95% of the material is still Paizo's intellectual property. A couple of the quotes are my creation, but I would never expect credit for them.

Are the ones I have now fine? Or should I take them down?

You should be fine if you add a second page with the CUP boilerplate, and just print that on the back of the sheet.

[FLite]

Michael Brock wrote:

1) Be careful passing these as an official Paizo PDF. They should instead use a custom layout and design.

I would like to see them use more or less the same order of content, since the point is to have these available to new players, and I don't want to have to teach them two different ways of finding info on the sheet.

Would it be sufficient to give them a different border and replace the PFS logo in the upper right with a "Fan Content" logo? (and add the CUP boilerplate on the back side?)

[Michael Brock]

FLite wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

1) Be careful passing these as an official Paizo PDF. They should instead use a custom layout and design.

I would like to see them use more or less the same order of content, since the point is to have these available to new players, and I don't want to have to teach them two different ways of finding info on the sheet.

Would it be sufficient to give them a different border and replace the PFS logo in the upper right with a "Fan Content" logo? (and add the CUP boilerplate on the back side?)

Sounds good to me.

[Viskous]

So Nefreet, you need to add this text to the sheet.

This character sheet uses trademarks and/or copyrights owned by Paizo Inc., which are used under Paizo's Community Use Policy. We are expressly prohibited from charging you to use or access this content. This character sheet is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Inc. For more information about Paizo's Community Use Policy, please visit paizo.com/communityuse. For more information about Paizo Inc. and Paizo products, please visit paizo.com.

You might be able to fit that in, in 6 point text along the bottom of the sheet. You should also put some kind of Extra logo over on the right to indicate it is fan created or made by Nefreet Industries!

[Nefreet]

Awesome, thanks! Working on it now.

[Viskous]

Oh and if you could sell this stuff, I'd by Nefreet Industries products.

[UndeadMitch]

It's a small thing, but the damage on Alain's lance should be 1d8+4, since it gets x1.5 STR from being a two handed weapon, even when he's using it one handed while mounted.

The pregens are looking good, by the way!

[Michael Hallet]

I'm curious as to what you used to create these. I've been interested in having copies of my PCs in this format for personal use, but wasn't too sure how to go about it.

[LazarX]

Michael Hallet wrote:

I'm curious as to what you used to create these. I've been interested in having copies of my PCs in this format for personal use, but wasn't too sure how to go about it.

It's not too hard, it's simply a matter of creating an appropriate sized document in a page layout program like Quark, InDesign, or for those who aren't doing graphic design for a living, the free alternative, Scribus, available in Mac/Windows/Linux versions. (My inspection of the file shows the author used OpenOffice.) Then it's just a matter of using Community based artwork or extracting images from another PDF. At that point, it's just a matter of patience and donkeywork of layout and selecting font styles close enough to match.

[Michael Hallet]

I downloaded Scribus once but pretty much clueless as to how to use it.

[Nefreet]

Alrighty. How's this?

[LazarX]

Nefreet wrote:

Alrighty. How's this?

It's nicely done. But PFS Judges still need to remember that the only pregens they are allowed to give out to players, are the official Paizo ones.

[Nefreet]

LazarX wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Alrighty. How's this?

It's nicely done. But PFS Judges still need to remember that the only pregens they are allowed to give out to players, are the official Paizo ones.

That is incorrect, and that argument has been done to death.

Up thread, Mike Brock even wrote:

First level characters and their builds are fine since we have rebuild rules in place

GMs and players have been handing newbies scraps of paper with scribbles on them for years. This is just a fancier version of a hastily scribbled 1st level character.

[andreww]

I like the look of the Witch although I would probably suggest some changes.

Magical Aptitude is a pretty terrible feat and you are unlikely to see many people taking any of the +2/2 skill feats once they know much about the game. I would avoid suggesting they are any good at all to newbies. Any of the common caster feats are likely to be an improvement.

Extra Hex is a good choice although I would probably not take Ward given how weak it is. Honestly I would probably switch out both and go with something like Misfortune and Evil Eye. Both are pro-active useful abilities and they avoid the anti climax that is Slumber.

I am not sure what is going on with Traits. Starchild seems a bit random. If you want something which meets the background then something which gives survival as a class skill is likely to be more useful. Likewise I would switch World Traveller to Diplomacy. It may not fit the background but Diplomacy is the second most common skill check and I would rather amend the background and give a newbie a way of contributing to a significant chunk of the game.

As far as stats go I am not sure what the Charisma 13 is really doing for her. You don't have to go mad dumping but something like 8, 10, 12, 14, 14, 16 pre racial avoids the wasted odd stat.

[Nefreet]

Have to head off to work, but I'll work on editing Alain tonight and possibly hammering out the Oracle.

[LazarX]

Nefreet wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Alrighty. How's this?

It's nicely done. But PFS Judges still need to remember that the only pregens they are allowed to give out to players, are the official Paizo ones.

That is incorrect, and that argument has been done to death.

Up thread, Mike Brock even wrote:

First level characters and their builds are fine since we have rebuild rules in place

GMs and players have been handing newbies scraps of paper with scribbles on them for years. This is just a fancier version of a hastily scribbled 1st level character.

Then I have to say that campaign management has been giving us mixed signals. There was a document on the late and lamented PathfinderDB site that had 100 pregens of multiple mixes of race and character class. We would print out that document and let players pick out sheets for use as pregens until we were told to stop and stick to the official pregens.

[Nefreet]

@andreww

Download Master of the Fallen Fortress. That's how Feiya is built, for the most part. The APG Pregens have 15pt stats, so I increased them to 20pts. The Traits are thematic for the character. Feiya worships Desna, and her background is definitely not one for Diplomacy.

I gave her Extra Hex because the other feat is terrible (Arcane Strike), and if the objective is to introduce new players to the Witch, I figured having 2 Hexes was key.

There are certainly better ways to build a Witch, yes, but the Pregens aren't meant to be optimal.

(alright, now I'm really going)

[heretic]

This is really great work! I (much less elegantly) converted the level one APG pregens to 20 point builds a couple of years back but it was just to make them technically legal. This, though is the real deal & it is more in the spirit of the ACG pregens in terms of optimisation than the original CRB mob. Bravo!

[kinevon]

LazarX wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Alrighty. How's this?

It's nicely done. But PFS Judges still need to remember that the only pregens they are allowed to give out to players, are the official Paizo ones.

That is incorrect, and that argument has been done to death.

Up thread, Mike Brock even wrote:

First level characters and their builds are fine since we have rebuild rules in place

GMs and players have been handing newbies scraps of paper with scribbles on them for years. This is just a fancier version of a hastily scribbled 1st level character.

Then I have to say that campaign management has been giving us mixed signals. There was a document on the late and lamented PathfinderDB site that had 100 pregens of multiple mixes of race and character class. We would print out that document and let players pick out sheets for use as pregens until we were told to stop and stick to the official pregens.

And, as Mike mentioned, they are not pregens. They were prebuilt or sample characters, not PFS pregens.

And, IIRC, they had some issues, including illegal-for-PFS pieces in them. Add that they were hosted by a for-profit site, and things can get ugly.

Add-in that many of us, myself for one, couldn't get the section with the sample PCs to actually load up....

@Nefreet: How about "Player-Built Sample Character" instead of pregen.

[Nefreet]

I never used the word "Pregen" in the document itself, just this thread.

[The Fox]

Nefreet wrote:

Alrighty. How's this?

Looks good! Thanks for sharing, Nefreet.

[Nefreet]

Updated List:

Alahazra, the Iconic Oracle
Alain, the Iconic Cavalier
Feiya, the Iconic Witch

I removed the previous versions that didn't have the Community Use Policy.

UndeadMitch wrote:

It's a small thing, but the damage on Alain's lance should be 1d8+4, since it gets x1.5 STR from being a two handed weapon, even when he's using it one handed while mounted.

I don't think this is the case, and 1d8+3 is also what's listed in the Master of the Fallen Fortress statblock.

There's an FAQ stating that you get the +50% damage from Power Attack, but this FAQ says to treat it as a one-handed weapon for purposes of applying your Strength bonus to damage.

[The Fox]

Heh. Those two FAQs contradict one another vis-à-vis Power Attack.

[Nefreet]

I know. I just imagine that the Power Attack FAQ is the specific exception trumping the general rule presented in the other FAQ.

It's what keeps me sane.

[Nefreet]

Anywhom, I made the border purple for Feiya, orange for Alain, Red for Alahazra, and will probably make it blue for Balazar and green for Imrijka.

Maybe silver for Seltyiel? He'll be 100% from scratch. I am unaware of any other examples of him out there.

[The Fox]

Nefreet wrote:

Anywhom, I made the border purple for Feiya, orange for Alain, Red for Alahazra, and will probably make it blue for Balazar and green for Imrijka.

Maybe silver for Seltyiel? He'll be 100% from scratch. I am unaware of any other examples of him out there.

I think I have an old example of Seltyiel. I'll look for it.

Edit: Found him. But it was back when he was built as an eldritch knight. Second Darkness and Council of Thieves.

You might be able to build off some of this though.

From Second Darkness:

Level 1
LE half-elf fighter 1
Deity Asmodeus
Homeland Cheliax

Abilities Str 12, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10
Feats Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Skills Craft (alchemy)+6, Intimidate +4, Knowledge (arcana) +3, Spellcraft +3

Combat Gear acid, alchemist's fire (2);
Other Gear leather armor, longsword, dagger, shortbow with 20 arrows, flask of fine absinthe, gold holy symbol, mysterious spellbook

Level 4
LE half-elf fighter 1/evoker 3
Spells Prepared
2nd— I'll skip these, since you don't need them.
1st—enlarge person, burning hands, magic missile, shield
0th—flare, light, mage hand, ray of frost, prestidigitation.

I'll PM the background info to you.

[The Fox]

Here is his Meet the Iconics blog entry.

[The Fox]

Here is a stat block from pathfindercommunity.net. The copyright lists the source as the NPC Codex. I'm not sure that is accurate.

[Nefreet]

The Fox wrote:

Here is a stat block from pathfindercommunity.net. The copyright lists the source as the NPC Codex. I'm not sure that is accurate.

I just checked my copy of the NPC Codex. He's not in there.

That Community statblock lists Weapon Focus as one of his feats, which he couldn't have yet because his BAB is +0. I'll probably stay away from using it.

[The Fox]

Probably for the best.

[Kalindlara]

I PMed you the Second Darkness version of Seltyiel - let me know if you need anything else for your project.

[The Fox]

Nefreet: Second Darkness is Pathfinder #13. I saw your post in the other thread, and I wasn't sure if you knew this.

[Nefreet]

It took the efforts of both of you, but I finally realized it ;-)

So, originally I was thinking of the Traits Killer and Elven Reflexes, but Kalindlara pointed out that his father wasn't a Wild Elf, so now I'm thinking of going with the (admittedly terrible) Magic Trait "Magical Talent", and selecting Read Magic as his SLA. It totally fits his backstory of how he became a Magus in the first place.

Killer is really good for him (I'm giving him a scimitar, which is what I think he's wielding in his image), so maybe it'll offset the terribleness of Magical Talent.

Just because he's a Magus doesn't mean he needs to be optimized, right?

We'll see how many tomatoes I get thrown at me tomorrow.

[Kalindlara]

I'm so stupid. There's a Pathfinder version of him in Council of Thieves. Fortunately, it's very similar. ^_^

Add 2 to Seltyiel's Dexterity score.
Add Skill Focus (Perception) to Seltyiel's feats.

Also, his weapon is a longsword. At least, that's what he's equipped with in every iteration.

[Nefreet]

I don't own Council of Thieves.

Is it the exact same as the stats posted above? Or does this version have Traits?

[The Fox]

Neither.

I didn't give you that one because the higher level version did not have spells listed.

Here he is:

Abilities Str 12, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10
Feats Combat Expertise, Skill Focus (Perception), Weapon Focus (longsword)
Skills Craft (alchemy) +3, Intimidate +4, Knowledge (arcana) +3, Perception +3, Spellcraft +3

His equipment is the same.

[Nefreet]

Hmm. Darn. Because I was aiming at increasing his stats from 12/15/13/14/8/10 to 16/15/13/14/8/12 (it appears that the original version used a 10pt buy, and this newer version uses a 15pt buy).

Having a Str of 12 and a Dex of 17 makes wielding a Longsword problematic...

Maybe I'll just work on Imrijka instead for now.

[The Fox]

I think you should change his longsword to scimitar (it looks like a scimitar) and give him Weapon Finesse.

In Council of Thieves he has

Melee +3 (1d8+1)

Without those changes, his attack will be

Melee +1 (1d8+1)

With the changes suggested, he will have

Melee +3 (1d6+1)