Commune with Nature and the Spell Mind Blank or Non-Detection

[Shadowlords]

So commune with nature is a divination spell so by just that non-detection and mind blank should stop it from working on a target.

But when using commune with nature you don't really "target" the creature its more you like you gathered the information from what nature has seen of the target.

We ran into this problem in our game were i used Tectonic Communion, A stronger version of Commune with nature, to find a kraken, or something like a kraken. But the kraken had non detection. so GM ruled that it didn't work. Thats fine, kind of not how my vision of the spell works but moving on we ended up going around asking sailors and me going into the sea as a druid and speaking with animals and plants to find the kraken.

Now my vision of commune with nature is just what we did but packed into one spell. I become one with nature and look through the eyes / talk to the creatures, plants, ect. to find the information that "nature" knows of the creature.

What are your thoughts on this spell and how it should be used vs anti scrying methods as a "divination" spell.

[Claxon]

I can't find this tectonic communion spell you're referring to, but Commune with Nature absolutely wouldn't work on a person, animal, or creature that has Mind Blank or non-detection on them (unless you make the caster level check).

Those defensive spells don't care if you are the target of a divination spell, only that a divination spell is trying to gain information about you.

For instance, a creature warded by mind blank (with a magical item) would not register to a detect magic spell. Detect magic is not targeted, it creates a cone which detects everything in an area.

So, targeting has nothing to do with mind blank and nondetection preventing divination from working. They merely don't work, regardless of targeted or not (unless you can make the caster level check against nondetection).

[Shadowlords]

Tectonic Communion http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SourceDisplay.aspx?FixedSource=Faiths%20and %20Philosophies

Its from faiths and philosophy's book pg 26

Basically a stronger version of Communion with Nature

My argument for it though is I am not targeting the creature so any passive effects that protect it from scrying and clairvoyance, both of which require a specific target, wont protect it. i am asking nature about the creature.

if i can go and talk to every plant and animal asking if they have seen the creature in the area i know its in then communion with nature should work as well. if it hasn't been seen by mundane means or cant be found by just plain old looking then the spell wouldn't work, as nature does not know of the creature or hasn't seen it.

Again to scry or clairvoiance on a creature i need to target the creature and cast the spell there are will saves involved and ect ect.

Communion with nature i am not targeting the creature at all the creature gets no say i just ask nature what it knows about the creature IE talking to all the plants and animals all at once in the area and asking them. the Creature is limited to be within range of the spell and in the area were nature, plants and animals would have been able to see him

[Claxon]

Nope, doesn't matter. While scrying and clairvoyance require a target and Commune with Nature doesn't it has nothing to with how Mind Blank and Nondetection defend the character.

Nondetection says the following:

Quote:

The warded creature or object becomes difficult to detect by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, locate object, and detect spells.

So there are two things to take away:

1) It mentions detect spells, which do not target. They generate cones that you move around. So clearly nondetection doesn't care whether your divination is targeted or not.
2) This list is not exhaustive, it says it becomes "difficult to detect by divination spells such as"... but that is not an exhaustive list. Those are just a few example.

Basically, if you accept the commune with nature doesn't work, then Tectonic Communion doesn't work either. If you are unsure about whether or not Commune with Nature works, see my above statements.

It doesn't matter that you're not specifically targeting the creature.

Also, while you might flavor the spell as you talking to plants or animals in the area that is not what actually happens. You cast the spell, you instantly receive knowledge through some magical connection to nature.

Now, if you actually cast spells to talk to animals that had actually observed you target your would be fine. But I think that you're biggest problem is that the fluff you imagining, while nice, isn't actually sink what the spell does.