Inner Sea Gods Paladin Codes

[blackbloodtroll]

Do the Deity specific Paladin Codes replace the Paladin Classes' Paladin Code, or supplement it?

[Gauss]

I would say that they supplement it. The CRB paladin codes are very basic while the Deity specific codes are more detailed and don't seem to contradict the CRB codes.

[blackbloodtroll]

What if contradictions occur?

[Faelyn]

I would say that they replace them. If you're playing a run-of-the-mill paladin, then use the basic one. I feel a paladin of Sarenrae should have a very different feel than one of Torag or Shelyn.

[dragonhunterq]

Go with the inner sea one as the more specific one. The CRB gives the foundations, the ISG builds on that.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, I intend to use one of the Codes in PFS.

I have to know.

I don't need a random "oops, you fell" slapping me in the face.

[Gauss]

Which code do you plan on using? Since the problem is possible contradictions we should talk in specifics.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, right now, I am looking at Iomedae, but no final decision has been made.

[Gauss]

I see nothing in Iomedae's paladin code that would contradict the CRB paladin code and several things that expand upon it.

[Chengar Qordath]

Yeah, as I recall Torag's code is the one that tends to be seen as problematic since it allows Paladins to do quite a few things that are generally seen as un-Paladinly, like lying and scattering the families of his enemies.

[Faelyn]

Sarenrae's code causes some folks consternation as well, for example the part where it says Something along the lines that if enemies will not redeem themselves then they will be redeemed by the sword.

Personally, I love the ISG paladin codes as it allows paladin to be more unique and not have to stick to the cookie-cutter style Paladins. I also feel it helps remove the Lawful Stupid clause folks seem to tag onto Paladins. I have a problem with GMs that feel they need to make Paladins fall for ridiculous reasons.

As far as PFS goes, BBT, I don't believe there are any rules about which to use. I would suggest bring a print out of the Code with you and tal to your GM before each game and find out if they have a problem with anything.

[Cyrad]

The codes in ISG are rather well written. So well written that a friend of mine, who used to hate paladins, wanted to play a paladin after reading some of the paladin codes. Heck, they even inspired him to create his own goddess for his campaign. Even the paladin code of Imoedae, the most stereotypical paladin god, has several tenets that dispel the Lawful Stupid, including being loyal to your companions. If you act like a righteous jerk to your companions or threaten to leave the party because you disagree with them on a moral argument, then you're breaking Imoedae's paladin code.

[LazarX]

Chengar Qordath wrote:

Yeah, as I recall Torag's code is the one that tends to be seen as problematic since it allows Paladins to do quite a few things that are generally seen as un-Paladinly, like lying and scattering the families of his enemies.

The problem is player interpretation of the Torag code. The Torag code applies to those enemies that directly attack the Paladin's homeland. Which is not applicable if said Paladin is beating on orcs half aworld away.

[Cyrad]

Chengar Qordath wrote:

Yeah, as I recall Torag's code is the one that tends to be seen as problematic since it allows Paladins to do quite a few things that are generally seen as un-Paladinly, like lying and scattering the families of his enemies.

I don't see anything wrong with it. The last tenet does say to not allow enemies of your people to surrender, but it also goes on to say you should act in a way that brings honor to Torag even during the most dire struggle. The tenets basically say to be honorable and truthful, but it's okay to lie in a war situation or if it's necessary to save lives.

You need to keep in mind that:
1) Torag is well known as a deity that plans for the long term. Allowing a sworn enemy to surrender will give them future chances to harm you and your people.

2) The dwarves have a history of fighting orcs and other enemies that tried to wipe out the dwarven race to take their land. Every tenet that involves showing little mercy or compassion to enemies exist in the context of dealing with foes that threaten the very existence of you and your loved ones.

If non-compassionate aliens came to Earth with the explicit purpose of wiping out the human race so they could harvest our natural resources, would you show any mercy to them? Would you let them surrender and fly away back to their planet just so they can mount another invasion?

[blackbloodtroll]

Remember, with each new GM, you get, at least, a slightly different interpretation of each Paladin Code.

So, with each different interpretation, you get another possible conflict.

In PFS, you can't avoid this.

If, however, it replaces, then there is nothing for it to potentially conflict with.

[Jokem]

Cyrad wrote:

Chengar Qordath wrote:

<SNIP>

If non-compassionate aliens came to Earth with the explicit purpose of wiping out the human race so they could harvest our natural resources, would you show any mercy to them? Would you let them surrender and fly away back to their planet just so they can mount another invasion?

Just for the record, my answer is 'No Mercy', but I am not a Paladin.

It can be argued the special powers a Paladin has makes up for them
having to be honorable and merciful in situations where most people
would not.