Grapple on "melded" creatures

[Blossora]

I'm unable to find anything that specifically references this, and maybe some of you can help me understand it better. If I tried to grapple a creature that is half-way "melded" into some material, and I grapple the half that is sticking out, can I move it out of that material back into the open?

The case that brought this up for me:

In a mythic campaign, the party is fighting a huge spider that has cast Earth Glide on itself, and has sunk 5 feet into the ground, with 5 more feet of itself sticking out (10 feet height). I succeed on starting a grapple, then use greater grapple to maintain, which then allows me to use the Champion ability Uncanny Grapple. I want to use the Throw ability of Uncanny Grapple, to throw the spider up into the air 30 feet (we are tier 3).

The gm says this would be impossible because that would be including "the rock and earth that the spider is apart of", which would require more effort than my character is capable of. Since there's no limitation set by Uncanny Grapple or grappling rules on the pfsrd-- afaik, then I would think I'd just pull the spider out of the ground. Again, I'm unable to find anything elsewhere that says explicitly if this is or is not the case. Outside of mythic, how would this affect being able to pin and move?

Thoughts or clarifications?

[Kalindlara]

Looking at it, since it references "as a fish swims through water", I'd say it should be about as hard as pulling a fish out of water.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything more official on the subject - this is a pretty rare situation, which is generally where the GM's role as rules arbitrator comes in.

Sorry. ^_^

[wraithstrike]

This is GM adjudication territory.

[Diego Rossi]

It is not melded, it is using a form of movement.

PRD wrote:

Earth Glide (Ex) When the creature burrows, it can pass through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. If protected against fire damage, it can even glide through lava. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other sign of its presence. A move earth spell cast on an area containing the burrowing creature flings it back 30 feet, stunning it for 1 round unless it succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.]

A mole burrowing in your garden is melded with the earth? No.

Same for the earth gliding creature.

"Mended" is a completely different state, like a summoner melded with his eidolon.

[Blossora]

Diego Rossi wrote:

A mole burrowing in your garden is melded with the earth? No.

Same for the earth gliding creature.

I see your point. That makes sense. Then what about the same case, but using an ability that actually did cause it to be melded. Something like Meld Into Stone, but the 'melding' is done over more than 1 round (though such an ability doesn't come to mind), giving time for grappling and all that implies.

Back to GM's preference?

[RedDogMT]

Blossora wrote:

The gm says this would be impossible because that would be including "the rock and earth that the spider is apart of"

A good GM will listen to a player's concerns and then make a decision. A good player will accept a GM's decision and then move on with the game.

Having a nice, friendly discussion afterward should also be OK, but again, be respectful if he is unswayed. By the way, going to a forum after the GM hands down a decision you do not agree with and putting a post out to get other people opinions is a good way to end up salty...

Also keep in mind that he may have made a mistake; or perhaps the 'spell' the spider cast was actually NOT Earth Glide, but was a similar spell or ability he himself created (and he does not wish to divulge information). I know of no spider that has Earth Glide as an ability, so perhaps he made up his own monster...and only he knows how that monster truly works.

Now, as a GM, I would not have gone the way he did. If it was indeed Earth Glide that the spider cast, I would not see the creature as melded into the rock in so much as it is 'swimming' through the rock. You could argue that the spider could use the rock as an anchor to help in not being pulled out, but I would rather treat it as water for that ability. Therefore, I would allow a player to try and drag the spider out of the rock if he succeeds at the grapple check. Also, it makes for an exciting little scene where a player gets to do something kind of cool. Then again, that's what I would have done and it really isn't worth diddly-bop.

[Blossora]

RedDogMT wrote:

By the way, going to a forum after the GM hands down a decision you do not agree with and putting a post out to get other people opinions is a good way to end up salty...

My GM and I are long time friends and have gone through many disagreements on the rules before. Please, do not presume to know us.

RedDogMT wrote:

Also keep in mind that he may have made a mistake; or perhaps the 'spell' the spider cast was actually NOT Earth Glide, but was a similar spell or ability he himself created (and he does not wish to divulge information). I know of no spider that has Earth Glide as an ability, so perhaps he made up his own monster...and only he knows how that monster truly works.

It was a mythic spider with spell-casting ability. And it cast Earth Glide, as I described in the original post.

RedDogMT wrote:

Now, as a GM, I would not have gone the way he did. If it was indeed Earth Glide that the spider cast, I would not see the creature as melded into the rock in so much as it is 'swimming' through the rock. You could argue that the spider could use the rock as an anchor to help in not being pulled out, but I would rather treat it as water for that ability. Therefore, I would allow a player to try and drag the spider out of the rock if he succeeds at the grapple check.

I appreciate your input. Though after Diego's post, I had brought it to the DM's attention. At which point we both came to the same conclusion, he conceded that his ruling was wrong and would keep it in mind for the future.