How does Signature Skill (Stealth) and Sniping Interact


Rules Questions


Specifically, with the upper ranks of stealth which allow for multiple attacks per round while being under the effect of stealth, can you re-stealth in order to remain hidden after making the attacks for next round?


As I read it, no.

Sniping gives you one attack, only one, then you must re-stealth. If you choose to just stand there and keep shooting, you lost your chance to use Sniping. Yeah, sure, all those shots are against a foe denied his DEX, but that doesn't change the fact that you chose to remain in sight rather than re-stealthing after one attack.


DM_Blake,

As I read it, I agree. However, as steath is a "part of movement", could you not re-stealth (provided the conditions exist) by making a 5' step at the end of your full attack? Or use your swift action if that swift action allows for movement?

The Exchange

That situation in post #3 has nothing to do with sniping though.


The advantage of sniping is that the enemy (or enemies) never knew where you were, rather than simply disappearing after attacking from stealth, which still lets them know where you were, and gives them an area to search.

Just to clarify.


Quintain wrote:

DM_Blake,

As I read it, I agree. However, as steath is a "part of movement", could you not re-stealth (provided the conditions exist) by making a 5' step at the end of your full attack? Or use your swift action if that swift action allows for movement?

If you could just do that, why bother sniping? It limits you to one shot and there's a huge penalty on the subsequent Stealth check.

Here's why:

Sniping lets you fire one shot and never be seen (if you make the Stealth check). Your enemies never know who or what or where you are. You could do this round after round and all they can do is spread out and search for you and hope they find you before you kill them.

Full-attacking from Stealth means you step out of cover (or pop your head up, or lean out, or whatever) and fire multiple attacks. The first one benefits from the fact that your Stealth doesn't break until after you make that one attack. After that, you are visible and every enemy on the battlefield is looking at you - yes, they see you (if they don't it's because of something else not applicable to this discussion, like you're invisible or they're blind). Once they see you, sure, you could 5'-step into cover or concealment and try a Stealth check, but everybody knows you just stepped behind that tree and now, even though they can no longer see you, they're all taking their turns moving toward that tree to surround you and hack you to pieces.

Yeah, you CAN do either one. Your choice. But they're not even close to the same thing.


Question: does signature skill stealth make vital strike viable?


Quote:


Full-attacking from Stealth means you step out of cover (or pop your head up, or lean out, or whatever) and fire multiple attacks. The first one benefits from the fact that your Stealth doesn't break until after you make that one attack. After that, you are visible and every enemy on the battlefield is looking at you - yes, they see you (if they don't it's because of something else not applicable to this discussion, like you're invisible or they're blind). Once they see you, sure, you could 5'-step into cover or concealment and try a Stealth check, but everybody knows you just stepped behind that tree and now, even though they can no longer see you, they're all taking their turns moving toward that tree to surround you and hack you to pieces.

See, that is the thing, if you have Signature Skil (Stealth) at 15+ ranks, this isn't true. You are in stealth through your entire attack routine, according to how I understand the ability.

I'm simply a full attack then a 5' step back into stealth.

Show me where this isn't effectively the same thing.


From what I see, they're just denied their dex modifier during your entire attack, rather than you being unseen. Thematically, I suppose you're just so quick that you can get off multiple attacks before they realize what's happening.

They'd still see you before you "re-stealthed" though.

Designer

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Paulicus wrote:

From what I see, they're just denied their dex modifier during your entire attack, rather than you being unseen. Thematically, I suppose you're just so quick that you can get off multiple attacks before they realize what's happening.

They'd still see you before you "re-stealthed" though.

This is correct. It's super useful to get off a full attack against flat-footed!


Mark,

Thanks for the clarification on the sequence of events.

Do you forsee an improvement to sniping that does allow for a full attack sequence at any point that doesn't rely on invisibility?


That would be a very powerful ability. I don't foresee that kind of thing happening without a lot of forethought, and at very high level.

In a home game, you could try for an Unchained Ninja, their version of death attack (assassinate, advanced Ninja trick) can be used while sniping.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Rogar Stonebow wrote:
Question: does signature skill stealth make vital strike viable?

Vital Strike is useful with sniping, since you only get one attack per round when you are sniping, so it at least lets you add additional damage from your iteratives.

As someone else pointed out, once you get your Rank 15 unlock, you can full attack instead of sniping, thought that can be problematic. If your goal is to remain completely unseen throughout, Vital Strike is still useful at that point.

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