Mythic and Non-Mythic Character Balance

[DiceMonkee]

I'm creating a home game where several of the characters will be mythic. One of the characters will not. He has pledged to serve and protect the characters and help them in their quest. I am going to give the character bonuses to a few knowledge skills so he can be seen as an advisor.

I'm looking for suggestions on "perks" to give this guardian character so he stays somewhat on par with the mythic characters. It might be as simple as giving the guardian character mythic levels but just call it something else. I'm looking for a clever way to keep this character on par with the other characters to keep it fun for him so he doesn't feel totally underpowered. Character class has not been established.

Mythic characters will get their mythic levels from defeating mythic enemies.

I appreciate the suggestions!

[Zhangar]

The guardian should perhaps be either higher level or perhaps inhuman.

Like, for example, a nonmythic silver dragon could be a cool ally.

Alternatively, make him a full caster if the group otherwise doesn't have one, thus providing them a good bit of utility they otherwise may not have.

[Onyxlion]

Hero points could work some what. Gestalt could also be something you could do.

[Tinalles]

Give him Mythic Companion as a bonus feat. The flavor is spot on, and mechanically, counting as mythic for purposes of mythic spells and effects will help keep him from being totally screwed when the rest of the party tangles with mythic adversaries.

[kestral287]

Gestalt was my immediate thought. Good picks there can do a lot. A mythic character will still take a gestalt character nine days out of ten, but it'll at least be a closer match and a gestalt character has options.

That said... you make it sound like the non-Mythic character will be a PC. I'm... not sure this setup is wise. I've watched a group implode from characters being a mythic tier or two off from each other, let alone one guy missing them outright. I suppose if the player is cool with it, then okay, but... I would be careful with this.

[Philo Pharynx]

You could have the non-mythic character one of the more powerful classes (like the synthesist summoner), or give them more stat points.

You could also give him a level every time the group gets a new mythic tier.

Of course if you intend to give out many mythic tiers, I'm not sure if any fix will be good.

I'm curious why they don't want to be mythic.

[DiceMonkee]

Kestrel - I've never ran or played in a mystic campaign so I'm curious about the party imploding when they were just a tier or two away from each other. Did your game get drastically unbalanced with the minor level difference?

Philo - Mythic tiers will be difficult to get. The character concept was something I was exploring for a twist in the plot and the characters background. It may not work cuz the character would be underpowered. Its very early in the development of the campaign and nothing I can't change.

To others thanks for the suggestions.

[kestral287]

DiceMonkee wrote:

Kestrel - I've never ran or played in a mystic campaign so I'm curious about the party imploding when they were just a tier or two away from each other. Did your game get drastically unbalanced with the minor level difference?

Well. Wasn't my game. The rest of my table was involved though, along with a few other people. Five man group all told.

It got to the point that encounters ended when the higher-tier people took their turns, to the point that the lower-tier players literally just... stopped fighting. There was no point.

Instead, they wandered off on their own, so that they could actually do something. That forced a party split, divided the GM's attention, sapped his will to run the game, and well...

Long story short, one of the under-tier players figured out that with a certain combination of invisibility and archery related abilities he could slaughter the rest of the party and there was literally nothing they could do about it. And the GM was so sick of the campaign that he literally asked this player to do just that.

Now, there was more going on here than just the mythic imbalance-- I was literally taking notes of what not to do as a GM every time this game came up in conversation. But the mythic imbalance had a lot to do with things at the root of it and at the very least hastened its collapse.

[DiceMonkee]

My plan was to give the mythic level to the character who made the killing blow of the mythic encounter (yes, like Highlander). As soon as the party figured that out thought it would make for some interesting combats. This group has been together FOREVER so we all play well together and as a team. I don't see any back stabbing or splitting the party.

Would you say adding a mythic level is like adding a second class?

[Onyxlion]

Adding mythic is easy, but support classes will get hosted by killing blows awarding tiers.

[kestral287]

Eh. Not quite. It's better, in most respects.

For example, a Wizard: he gets a Mythic tier, he decides to go Archmage and takes Arcane Surge + Shapeshifting Mastery + a random Mythic feat

That means...

1. He can cast spells with a swift action, and these spells will be very good at punching through most defenses. This can be done 5/day.

2. He can now front-line fairly effectively due to having a full BAB while shapeshifted.

3. He has whatever the mythic feat granted him, and those are fairly flexible.

That sets him up with a better action economy than anything that a comparably-built gestalt character (Wizard//Druid would probably be closest) can pull off, and with better overall synergies.

A Fighter is in much the same boat. He takes, say, Champion for Fleet Warrior + Impossible Speed and Mythic Vital Strike, he does a lot more damage and is extremely mobile.

Now, what mythic can't do as easily is provide new capabilities (Shapeshifting Mastery is a rarity in that it does allow that). A Fighter isn't going to become an effective skillmonkey by going Mythic. A Fighter who picks up Investigator as a gestalt suddenly is. But within their areas of specialty, the Fighter-Champion will smash the Fighter//Investigator.

I do have to say that your plan would concern me, were I to run that game or play in it... but you know your table better than I.

[DiceMonkee]

This is all great feedback! Looks like I am going to rethink my original concept.

[Zhangar]

Yeah, awarding mythic tiers based on finishing blows sounds like trouble.

If you're awarding a tier, award it to the whole party.

[Brother Fen]

I'd tread lightly into awarding mythic tiers. I am running a campaign that just went mythic. They only have one tier at present so everything is manageable, but once they gain a second, I will have to start adjusting CR for every module.

James Jacobs only allowed two mythic tiers for his recently completed Sandpoint campaign with the second tier being gained only at the final encounter of the campaign.

[Cyrad]

Is this the player's choice? Did he not want mythic tiers?