Help with mount for my goblin cavalier please.


Advice


OK, so I guess I have no idea how mounts/animal companions work in Pathfinder.

I am playing a goblin cavalier in a Legacy of Fire adventure path, and have gotten permission from the DM that I can have a goblin dog as my Mount. When submitting my character sheet, I just copied and pasted the PRD stats for the goblin dog. I guess I did that wrong because the immunity to disease and skill points are wrong

So I would like to get some advice and maybe an example of what a 1st level cavalier's goblin mount should have for stats.

this is what I have
Ambrosius.

N Medium animal
Init +2; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +1

DEFENSES
AC 13, touch 12, flat-footed 11 (+2 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 16 (2d8+7)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +1
Immune disease

OFFENSE
Speed 50 ft.
Melee bite +2 (1d6+3 plus allergic reaction)

STATISTICS
Str 15 (+2_, Dex 14 (+2), Con 15(+2+, Int 2, Wis 12(+1), Cha 8
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats: Toughness
Skills: Stealth +6

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Allergic Reaction (Ex)
A goblin dog's dander is highly irritating to all creatures save those with the goblinoid subtype. A non-goblinoid creature damaged by a goblin dog's bite, who deals damage to a goblin dog with a natural weapon or unarmed attack, or who otherwise comes into contact with a goblin dog (including attempts to grapple or ride the creature) must make a Fortitude save or break out in an itching rash. A creature affected by this rash takes a –2 penalty to Dexterity and Charisma for 1 day (multiple allergic reactions do not stack). Remove disease or any magical healing removes the rash instantly. This is a disease effect. The save DC is Constitution-based. DC 12

Please let me know what I have done wrong and what I can do to fix this,

Grand Lodge

PRD wrote:

Goblin Dog Companions

Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 50 ft.; Attack bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str 11, Dex 16, Con 11, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 8; Special Qualities allergic reaction, low-light vision, scent.

4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +4

These are specifically the stats for a goblin dog that is an animal companion. In addition to this, you get what is on Animal Companion chart in the druid class description. Then since you're a cavalier you subtract the Share Spells ability, and add Light Armor Proficiency to your mount as a bonus feat. In addition, you don't take your armor's armor check penalty to ride checks (because you're a cavalier).

You'll want to keep ride and handle animal maxed. Handle Animal checks to make your mount attack, ride for everything else--these are described pretty well in their own skill descriptions. In addition, there is Animal Archives Player Companion that has some pretty good Animal Companion archetypes. Bodyguard archetype works really well

If you're starting below level 4, it's unlikely that your dog will actually have the str to carry you and not be encumbered and you'd also need the Undersized Mount feat so that you can ride a mount the same size as you (you're both small). Though, since you got special permission for it to be your mount, it'd be pretty fair to just give it its fourth level advancement at lvl 1 since it's not really a strong animal companion.


You really don't need to max out Handle Animal.

Handle Animal isn't used to direct the animal to attack. That is done by combat training the mount. All Cavalier mounts start out as combat trained. Handle Animal is used if you want to teach the mount more tricks outside of being combat trained, or if you want to "push" the mount, and that DC is 25 (pretty much all the rest are 20 or less, and are things done in down-time where you should be able to Take 10). Even if you have a very restrictive DM that requires a Handle Animal check to get your mount to attack, the DC is only 10 to "Handle an Animal."

Ride is a bit more important, but the checks for that are still pretty low, especially considering you don't take armor check penalties. Ride is the skill check you need to do if you direct your mount to attack and wish the rider to attack as well, but the DC for that is only 10, so the check for that should be seriously easy even at lower levels (Rank + Class Skill + Stat should have lvl 1 Ride skill of at least 6). Ride also has a lot of in-combat uses (staying in saddle, jumping the mount, spur to greater speed, etc.), but even these DC's aren't that high (the highest is 20).

Grand Lodge

Saldiven wrote:

You really don't need to max out Handle Animal.

Handle Animal isn't used to direct the animal to attack. That is done by combat training the mount. All Cavalier mounts start out as combat trained. Handle Animal is used if you want to teach the mount more tricks outside of being combat trained, or if you want to "push" the mount, and that DC is 25 (pretty much all the rest are 20 or less, and are things done in down-time where you should be able to Take 10). Even if you have a very restrictive DM that requires a Handle Animal check to get your mount to attack, the DC is only 10 to "Handle an Animal."

Ride is a bit more important, but the checks for that are still pretty low, especially considering you don't take armor check penalties. Ride is the skill check you need to do if you direct your mount to attack and wish the rider to attack as well, but the DC for that is only 10, so the check for that should be seriously easy even at lower levels (Rank + Class Skill + Stat should have lvl 1 Ride skill of at least 6). Ride also has a lot of in-combat uses (staying in saddle, jumping the mount, spur to greater speed, etc.), but even these DC's aren't that high (the highest is 20).

Please show me the specifically where Ride tells you that you can command your mount to attack. (Basically what Nefreet says in the next post)

And the DCs that are 20 you'll definitely want to nail everytime when you attempt it. For instance, Fast Dismount turns dismounting into a free action instead of a move action--when you want to make that check you pretty much are guaranteed to have a different need for your move action so you'll want to hit that every time.

I will submit that Handle Animal isn't as important, but it definitely is. And contrary to popular belief, you can't be on your mount all the time so being able to handle your animal will always be beneficial.

Sczarni

Handle Animal is absolutely needed to command your mount to attack.

Ride is needed so the rider can also attack at the same time.

It's a common misconception.


claudekennilol wrote:
Saldiven wrote:

You really don't need to max out Handle Animal.

Handle Animal isn't used to direct the animal to attack. That is done by combat training the mount. All Cavalier mounts start out as combat trained. Handle Animal is used if you want to teach the mount more tricks outside of being combat trained, or if you want to "push" the mount, and that DC is 25 (pretty much all the rest are 20 or less, and are things done in down-time where you should be able to Take 10). Even if you have a very restrictive DM that requires a Handle Animal check to get your mount to attack, the DC is only 10 to "Handle an Animal."

Ride is a bit more important, but the checks for that are still pretty low, especially considering you don't take armor check penalties. Ride is the skill check you need to do if you direct your mount to attack and wish the rider to attack as well, but the DC for that is only 10, so the check for that should be seriously easy even at lower levels (Rank + Class Skill + Stat should have lvl 1 Ride skill of at least 6). Ride also has a lot of in-combat uses (staying in saddle, jumping the mount, spur to greater speed, etc.), but even these DC's aren't that high (the highest is 20).

Please show me the specifically where Ride tells you that you can command your mount to attack.

Ride doesn't say you can command the animal to attack. Here are the appropriate rules:

Under Cavalier's Mount feature:

"The mount is always considered combat trained and begins play with Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat."

Under Combat Training in Handle Animal:

"Combat Training (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel." {Note, the DC mentioned here is that required to give the animal Combat Training, not the DC to use Combat Training.}

Under Attack in Handle Animal:

"Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able." {Again, the DC noted is that required to train an animal to the Attack trick.}

As I mentioned, even if you want to be super strict and require a handle animal check to get a mount to attack, the DC is only 10, so doesn't require a maxed out Handle Animal. A total value of around 10 (including class skills, stat, etc.) is all you need for 90%+ of the situations you'll need to use the skill.

At no point did I say that Ride was used to get the animal to attack. Ride is required if you wish to have the animal attack and still have the rider attack. Under Ride skill

"Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action."

The listed DC to do this is 10.

Grand Lodge

Saldiven wrote:

Ride doesn't say you can command the animal to attack. Here are the appropriate rules:

Under Cavalier's Mount feature:

"The mount is always considered combat trained and begins play with Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat."

Under Combat Training in Handle Animal:

"Combat Training (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel." {Note, the DC mentioned here is that required to give the animal Combat Training, not the DC to use Combat Training.}

Under Attack in Handle Animal:

"Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able." {Again, the DC noted is that required to train an animal to the Attack trick.}

As I mentioned, even if you want to be super strict and require a handle animal check to get a mount to attack, the DC is only 10, so doesn't require a maxed out Handle Animal. A total value of around 10 (including class skills, stat, etc.) is all you need for 90%+ of the situations you'll need to use the skill.

At no point did I say that Ride was used to get the animal to attack. Ride is required if you wish to have the animal attack and still have the rider attack. Under Ride skill

"Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action."

The listed DC to do this is 10.

As Nefreet pointed out (probably while you were responding), a handle animal check is required to get your mount to attack.

Most notably, you're either wrong with this statement or your wording is just wonky that skews what you meant "Ride is required if you wish to have the animal attack and still have the rider attack." Ride is required to attack with your mount if you have already commanded it to attack via Handle Animal. Sure, the DC is 10, but you've still got to make the separate Handle Animal and Ride Checks to do so.

I stand by wanting my mounted characters to have maxed out Handle Animal/Ride (or at least maxed out enough that I'll put a point in for at least the first 10 or so levels).

Sczarni

Maxed probably isn't necessary, although there are a few creatures with an Unnatural Aura that requires a DC 25 Handle Animal to approach.

Usually +13 will cover most everything else (to meet a DC 14).

DC 10 to get the critter to perform a trick it knows.
DC +2 if it's injured.
And an extra +2 if you're suffering -2 to skill checks, as many debuffs will inflict.


Nefreet wrote:

Maxed probably isn't necessary, although there are a few creatures with an Unnatural Aura that requires a DC 25 Handle Animal to approach.

Usually +13 will cover most everything else (to meet a DC 14).

DC 10 to get the critter to perform a trick it knows.
DC +2 if it's injured.
And an extra +2 if you're suffering -2 to skill checks, as many debuffs will inflict.

This is probably the most accurate assessment.

Sorry for the poor wording in my post; my intention was to say that a Ride check was necessary if both the rider and mount intend to attack in the same round.

Grand Lodge

Maybe it's not necessary, but I know I want the option of being able to reliably use the other 20 or so tricks my mount doesn't have if needed. Likewise, fast dismount could be incredibly important when needed. On an almost related note, my "cavaliers" are all hunters and they get a large number of skill points to go around.

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