Questions about grappling, rending, raking, and sundering


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

So a couple of questions while working on a monster that I kind of need answered.

1.) If a creature has multiple attacks (like claw, claw, bite) and has the grab special ability, hits on the first attack, confirms the grapple, and still has those other attacks? Do they go off or do they lose them?

2.) If a creature has multiple attacks with grab, the rake ability, and hits with said first attack and grabs does it get those rakes on top of the other attacks? Like say a lion pounces someone and lands the bite and grab does he get both his claw attacks and both his rakes?

3.) Does Rending Claws work on claw attacks performed in a grapple?

4.) If I use my claws to sunder and I have Rending Claws does Rending Claws activate and apply to the sunder?

Any help greatly appreciated especially if there are links to official answers or page numbers that might have the answer.


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1. They can make those attacks, and usually it's best to use them against the grappled creature.

2.

Rake wrote:
A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

3. Yes, it does not specify any conditions. As long as you hit them with two claws, it activates.

4. I would say no, as the wording is "hit a creature".


1. Grab lets a creature begin a grapple as a free action - it does not specify when that free action must be taken. It seems logical that it must be immediately taken right after the attack that has the ability, but while that is logical, it negates the rest of the creature's attack routine which is undesirable. Instead, we can apply a bit less logic but still be ENTIRELY within RAW by saying the grapple free action happens after the last attack instead in-between attacks.

2. See #1. And Rake can be used while grappling, so do your full attack sequence, use your free grab, then rake while he's easier to hit.

3. No. You can use it during your attack, and then use grab to get a free grapple at the end of the sequence as above. Then next round you must maintain your grapple or let the guy go. If you maintain it, you won't attack with any attacks (automatic damage) so you cannot use this feat, and if you let him go, you can certainly try to attack him again, and use this feat too, but you won't be grappling.

4. No. Sunder is in place of one attack. This feat requires two attacks to use.

Shadow Lodge

bigrig107 wrote:

1. They can make those attacks, and usually it's best to use them against the grappled creature.

2.

Rake wrote:
A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

3. Yes, it does not specify any conditions. As long as you hit them with two claws, it activates.

4. I would say no, as the wording is "hit a creature".

K makes sense though I will say I'm sad since sundering with 2 claw attack and then rending someones armor off them sounds amazing.


Exceptions to #2

Rake may be used as part of a Pounce

Eidolon Rake triggers on every successful Grapple check (including the first)

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