Official Rules Response
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Hey everyone,
For last week's FAQ Friday, we revealed some of the ACG errata that you asked for with the most FAQs. However, FAQs tend to be about a rules question with two sides (and honestly most of the other errata don't have a huge number of FAQs), so how about three tentative errata previews that you wouldn't FAQ because they weren't creating rules disputes? And since we too often focus on the reining in of overpowered options, this week we'll look at cool new benefits instead!
First the Feral Hunter, who still had two powers that didn't do anything, loses those to gain some cool benefits:
In the Feral Hunter’s Feral Focus ability, in the last sentence, after “animal focus, ” add “second animal focus, ”. In the Precise Summoned Animal ability, in the first sentence, change “if the hunter chooses OutflankAPG as a bonus feat, she grants it” to “the hunter grants all her teamwork feats”. In the Summon Pack ability, after the third sentence, add “She may increase the duration of any one summon nature’s ally spell affected by this ability to 1 minute per level. She may only have one spell with a duration increased by this ability active at a time.”
Next the Ecclesitheurge, whose bonded holy symbol ability ran too long, now has a brand new power too:
Page 91—In the Ecclesitheurge archetype’s Ecclesitheurge’s Vow ability, in the second sentence, remove both instances of the word “prohibited”. Add the following ability after the Ecclesitheurge’s Vow ability:
Blessing of the Faithful (Su): As a standard action, the ecclesitheurge can bless one ally within close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels). A blessed ally gains a +2 sacred or profane bonus (depending on whether the ecclesitheurge channels positive or negative energy) on attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, or saving throws or to AC until the ecclesitheurge’s next turn. The ecclesitheurge can expend 1 use of channel energy when activating this ability to increase the duration to a number of rounds equal to the number of dice of his channel energy.
• Page 91—Change Bonded Holy Symbol to the following:
Bonded Holy Symbol (Su): At 3rd level, an ecclesitheurge forms a powerful bond with a holy symbol of his deity, which functions identically to a wizard’s bonded object except it can be used to cast cleric and domain spells (instead of wizard spells) and the ecclesitheurge can grant his bonded holy symbol only magic abilities appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item.
As with a wizard’s bonded item, an ecclesitheurge can add additional magic abilities to his bonded holy symbol as if he had the required item creation feat (typically Craft Wondrous Item), provided he meets the feat’s level prerequisites. For example, an ecclesitheurge with a bonded holy symbol who wants to add a wondrous amulet ability, like amulet of natural armor, to his bonded holy symbol must be at least 3rd level to do so. The magic properties of a bonded holy symbol, including any magic abilities the ecclesitheurge added to the object, function for only the ecclesitheurge. If a bonded holy symbol’s owner dies or the item is replaced, the object loses all enhancements the ecclesitheurge added using this ability.
This ability replaces the increase to channel energy gained at 3rd level.
Finally, the sniper, who traded a talent for a static ability that was strictly worse than one of the talent choices it already had, gains an actual sniping ability instead:
Replace the Sniper archetype’s Deadly Range ability with “Deadly Sniper (Ex): At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon’s first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper’s presence.”
~PDT
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Is Blessing of the Faithful really intended to be at-will?
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Replace the Sniper archetype’s Deadly Range ability with “Deadly Sniper (Ex): At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon’s first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper’s presence.
That, I like — far more sniper-like.
Is that intended to be an automatic 'is aware', or can the sniper still attempt a stealth check at -20 to remain hidden?
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Replace the Sniper archetype’s Deadly Range ability with “Deadly Sniper (Ex): At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon’s first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper’s presence.That, I like — far more sniper-like.
Is that intended to be an automatic 'is aware', or can the sniper still attempt a stealth check at -20 to remain hidden?
Oh, you might be hidden. But they are aware that, y'know, someone shot them and is present at the same location, even if they don't know exactly where the sniper is.
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Is Blessing of the Faithful really intended to be at-will?Expanded options of aid another, without a roll, and from range. Sounds like a pretty good ability.
I guess that's one way to think of it, but I guess I'm just concerned about bogging down gameplay a little. Because now Guidance + Blessing of the Faithful becomes that 12-second buff that you should really do before pretty much every out-of-combat skill check. And it applies to a lot of things that you can't Aid Another on.
"Wait! Don't make that jump. Let me cast Guidance and use Blessing of the Faithful."
"Wait! Don't disarm that trap. Let me cast Guidance and use Blessing of the Faithful."
"Wait! Don't try and remember anything about history. Let me cast Guidance and use Blessing of the Faithful."
"Wait! Don't use that scroll. Let me cast Guidance and use Blessing of the Faithful."
Or alternatively, the receiver having to ask before every skill check "Do you mind using Guidance and Blessing of the Faithful on me?" which similarly just slows things down, I feel.
Maybe I'm being silly. A buff is a buff, it just seems like this will get really repetitive if you want to really use it.
Oh, you might be hidden. But they are aware that, y'know, someone shot them and is present at the same location, even if they don't know exactly where the sniper is.Replace the Sniper archetype’s Deadly Range ability with “Deadly Sniper (Ex): At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon’s first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper’s presence.That, I like — far more sniper-like.
Is that intended to be an automatic 'is aware', or can the sniper still attempt a stealth check at -20 to remain hidden?
Exactly how I interpreted it. As well as the general sniping ability.
You have been shoot, or at least shot at. You are aware that someone or something within some range of whatever the weapon was has attacked you.
You are not necessarily aware of what their specific location is.
Hidden means your exact locaiton is not revealed. Not that they are unaware that you are present.
This is not Skyrim. You cannot shot the guard in the knee and have him say, "Must have been the wind".
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Oh wow, the Feral Hunter has suddenly become pretty good. The inability to have a long duration summon to use those teamwork feats with was a huge design problem in the original version.
Yay, I need to run one of these now. Thanks for taking the time to make these archetypes more effective :D
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Rogue (Sniper) Halfling with the racial trait Swift as Shadow and the Advanced Talent Stealthy Sniper has no sniping penalty, and can do Sneak Attack + Level + bow damage at bow range once per round.
That's gotta be obnoxious.
Rogue (Sniper) Halfling with the racial trait Swift as Shadow and the Advanced Talent Stealthy Sniper has no sniping penalty, and can do Sneak Attack + Level + bow damage at bow range once per round.
That's gotta be obnoxious.
There's a few things there that aren't quite correct. For example, it's for slayer(sniper) and it won't work after the first time.
Well, my bad on Rogue-Slayer mistake.
But if you make your stealth check while sniping, wouldn't you be able to do it again next round? They know they got shot with a bow, but you made your stealth check.
Well, my bad on Rogue-Slayer mistake.
But if you make your stealth check while sniping, wouldn't you be able to do it again next round? They know they got shot with a bow, but you made your stealth check.
No, because that's not what "completely unaware of his presence" means. Make your stealth check all you want, they still know there's a sniper out there. They just haven't a clue exactly where.
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That's terrible. I can still sneak attack them, but doing the exact same thing as last round is suddenly impossible because it already happened once?
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No, because they now know there's someone hiding somewhere shooting at them, which they didn't know before. It's not Baldur's Gate where you can edge up and repeatedly shoot a guy right on the edge of the fog of war and have him not react.
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That's terrible. I can still sneak attack them, but doing the exact same thing as last round is suddenly impossible because it already happened once?
Paizo does hate sniping.
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That's terrible. I can still sneak attack them, but doing the exact same thing as last round is suddenly impossible because it already happened once?
When it comes to surprise attacks, the fact that it is the exact same thing as last round is exactly why it wouldn't work.
Once they know there is a sniper, they are on their guard.
I think it's a cool ability - one thing that is notoriously difficult to do in Pathfinder is one-shot guards. This lets you make a silent take-down, which can definitely come in handy when you're trying to break into somewhere undetected.
No, because they now know there's someone hiding somewhere shooting at them, which they didn't know before. It's not Baldur's Gate where you can edge up and repeatedly shoot a guy right on the edge of the fog of war and have him not react.
I don't want them to delete their memory of being shot. They're aware that they got hit with an arrow, but I made my stealth check.
I want to snipe them again. Shooting people with a bow is not vancian. I didn't use up my last 2nd level snipe slot. If I make my stealth check everytime, you're out of luck. I have more arrows, and I am just as skilled at shooting from the shadows as I was the first time. Whether or not you know someone somewhere in a 100 ft. radius circle around you shot an arrow is irrelevant.
Once they know there is a sniper, they are on their guard.
I think it's a cool ability - one thing that is notoriously difficult to do in Pathfinder is one-shot guards. This lets you make a silent take-down, which can definitely come in handy when you're trying to break into somewhere undetected.
It's worth noting that if they succeeded their sniping stealth check that the target would have no idea where the sniper is and is still considered flat footed. Just check the sniping rules to see what I'm talking about.
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They could be on their guard about someone else, and you'd still be able to snipe them. Arbitrary knowledge that does not change their physical state or enable them to protect themselves in any way makes them more difficult to affect with your specific brand of sniping.
That's insane.
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And you can keep shooting. You just don't fet Sneak Attack or bonus level to damage. Where is the problem?
Skill or not, the guard is now on his guard.
Aratrok: there are plenty of rules that can be considered insane. Mechanics sometimes take a hit for simplicity.
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This thread totally has a clickbait title. :)
You Won't Believe What The Pathfinder Design Team Has Done!
And you can keep shooting. You just don't fet Sneak Attack or bonus level to damage. Where is the problem?
Skill or not, the guard is now on his guard.
He has nowhere to look to. He knows absolutely nothing about where I am. He still takes full sneak attack damage from me, but this level damage suddenly goes away?
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Whether or not you know someone somewhere in a 100 ft. radius circle around you shot an arrow is irrelevant.
But it IS relevant to the fact that you can only Sneak Attack such a target outside the normal range once, without Sniper Goggles.
He has nowhere to look to. He knows absolutely nothing about where I am.
But he knows you are present, and to keep moving and looking to ruin the conditions that allowed the sniper to get that long-range sneak attack.
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And you can keep shooting. You just don't fet Sneak Attack or bonus level to damage. Where is the problem?
Skill or not, the guard is now on his guard.
Aratrok: there are plenty of rules that can be considered insane. Mechanics sometimes take a hit for simplicity.
It would be more simple if sniping just happened without the fact that he's been shot at before changed how much damage I do.
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This thread totally has a clickbait title.
You Won't Believe What The Pathfinder Design Team Has Done!
One Designer Sat Down and Addressed Errata; You Won't Guess What Happened Next
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Whether or not you know someone somewhere in a 100 ft. radius circle around you shot an arrow is irrelevant.But it IS relevant to the fact that you can only Sneak Attack such a target outside the normal range once, without Sniper Goggles.
I apologize, it shouldn't be relevant.
Things like this are why people say Paizo hates Rogues. I thought things had changed with the Slayer, but I was wrong.
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One Designer Sat Down and Addressed Errata; You Won't Guess What Happened NextThis thread totally has a clickbait title.
You Won't Believe What The Pathfinder Design Team Has Done!
You still need Sniper Goggles to even be a semi competent sniper even with a sniping archetype?
It would be more simple if sniping just happened without the fact that he's been shot at before changed how much damage I do.And you can keep shooting. You just don't fet Sneak Attack or bonus level to damage. Where is the problem?
Skill or not, the guard is now on his guard.
Aratrok: there are plenty of rules that can be considered insane. Mechanics sometimes take a hit for simplicity.
I agree in some ways, but other times it is best to err on the side of caution. I'll take the benefit, even if there is a silly (but simple in my opinion) stipulation.
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Whether or not you know someone somewhere in a 100 ft. radius circle around you shot an arrow is irrelevant.But it IS relevant to the fact that you can only Sneak Attack such a target outside the normal range once, without Sniper Goggles.
He has nowhere to look to. He knows absolutely nothing about where I am.But he knows you are present, and to keep moving and looking to ruin the conditions that allowed the sniper to get that long-range sneak attack.
but if he had been doing that from another sniper, I would still get my level damage on my first attack. Then, despite him having no way of knowing there were two snipers, neither of us would get any damage.
That is madness, sir.
but if he had been doing that from another sniper, I would still get my level damage on my first attack.Your what?
This snipe ability adds your Sniper level to damage.
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This snipe ability adds your Sniper level to damage.
Yes, once. At the same time that you get Sneak Attack outside of the normal 30ft range. And then you don't get either damage to that target because he is aware there is a sniper nearby. So you have to be within 30ft again or have Sniper Goggles. Either way, you don't get your level damage against that target again until he is completely unaware of you again.
He has nowhere to look to. He knows absolutely nothing about where I am. He still takes full sneak attack damage from me, but this level damage suddenly goes away?
He has a freakin' arrow protruding from his chest that literally points directly at you. I'm pretty sure he has some idea where you are.
Also, it's replacing a talent. It's gonna be limited a bit.
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He has nowhere to look to. He knows absolutely nothing about where I am. He still takes full sneak attack damage from me, but this level damage suddenly goes away?He has a freakin' arrow protruding from his chest that literally points directly at you. I'm pretty sure he has some idea where you are.
Nah. All you have to do is stay hidden for a little while longer until the eye icon is closed, then you're good.
It would not be pointed "directly at you" especially in the literal sense.
Variable 1: Even if you shoot a tree with an arrow, it is VERY unlikely to end up on the exact angle that it was shot from. It could easily be 15 degrees off.
Variable 2: Now, if the target moves, as living creature does when they are hit by a fast moving, painful object, it is almost impossible to tell EXACTLY what direction they were facing when hit.
Combine the two variables and the arrow could easy be 45 degrees off from the direction of the sniper.
I imagine that if people would prefer the 5 foot increase to sneak attack range to the new power, very few GMs would disallow the player to stick with the old ability. And it's a fairly small and low impact archetype, so if you think your sniper would get more use out of another talent and track than the new ability and halved range penalties, just go full slayer. Personally, I think it's worth it. You postpone your first ranger combat feat talent to 4 (but can still take the second at 6) in exchange for a much better surprise round option and a substantially increased ability to one-shot a weaker guard before he can raise the alarm.
Regardless, you would still hear the arrows flight, and at least know a 180 degree span that it would have come from.
And that's where the stealth penalty to sniping comes from. Huzzah.
At 1st level, a feral hunter gains a limited ability to change her shape into hybrid animal forms. This functions as the animal focus class feature, except that the hunter always applies the animal aspect to herself, and there is no limit to this ability's duration. She can end this ability as a free action.
When a feral hunter uses this ability, her body takes on cosmetic aspects of an animal, such as furry skin, longer nails, elongated teeth, and oddly colored eyes; these changes do not grant her any abilities other than what is stated in the animal focus, and end when she takes on a different aspect or ends the ability. This physical change is a polymorph effect, though the effects of the animal focus are not.
This ability replaces the animal focus, second animal focus, hunter tactics, and speak with master class abilities.