Yeah I know some eyebrows are going to raise, but hear me out, the idea in my head is one of 'shoot one guy & stab the other guy' kind of character. And there is so much artwork in fantasy (and futuristic fantasy like Warhammer 40K) where the guy is firing his pistol inches from his opponent's face, while swinging a big sword slicing whatever isn't newly made into swiss cheese.
Right now he is just a concept for Kingmaker campaign but this is what I got going:
Daz Bangfang
Race: Gnoll (I firmly believe in playing 'fun' races over tailoring to a class)
Gunslinger (Pistolero) 1
Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 15
Int: 12
Wis: 11
Cha: 9
Traits:
Sword Scion (from Kingmaker)
Dueling Cloak Adept
Feats: E.W.P. Pistol
Gunsmithing
Rapid Reload (every guide I read says this is a must at 1st lvl)
Weapons:
Pistol - 10 paper alchemical cartridges
Aldori Dueling Sword
Armor:
Lamellar Cuirass
Equipment:
backpack
belt pouch
canteen
bedroll
artisan's tools
gunsmithing kit
flint and steel
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For the future I'm looking to grab the feats neccessary for Sword and Pistol, and might(Probably) dip into fighter to collect more feats.
This is my first Gunslinger, but I'm looking to be good, not cheesy.
For those without the ARG, Gnolls are shown in the race builder section, +2 Str, +2 Con, +1 Nat Armor, and Darkvision 60ft.
Looking for feat advice primarily, and ideas mixing the dueling sword and pistol. I also like the pistol whip deed later on, but what if I shoot, and don't have a chance to reload, and want to just whack people with the pistol? Improvised weapon feats? (I've seen it down in a lot of movies.)
Any advice is apreciated though.
One other issue also seems that at early levels every gp is going to treasured, and horded for cartridge making. So pick up a backup ranged weapon?
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Okay. There are several problems that you're going to have.
First, your aldori dueling sword only functions as a longsword, since you don't have EWP(aldori dueling sword) yet. The good news is you can pick up that feat later if you want. This doesn't matter if you're not using finesse, however.
Second, you need a free hand to reload your pistol. This either means you start with only your pistol out, in case you want to fire multiple shots during combat and take advantage of your rapid reload and paper cartridges, or that you only get one shot in per fight.
Round 1: Shoot, reload, 5 ft step
Alternative: Shoot, move and draw sword
Remember that you get a discount on alchemical cartridges you make yourself, but you get a HUGE discount on normal shot and powder that you make. If you reload between fights, use normal shot, since you have the time and it's cheaper (and doesn't increase misfire chance).
Your stat bonuses are.... odd for your concept, but workable. The issue really is that your ranged attacks add Dex to hit (and damage at higher level from being a gunslinger) and your melee attacks add Str to hit and damage. Any synergies you can get from feats would be good. I recommend the feat Opening Volley from Ultimate Combat. Your gun is accurate already from targeting touch AC, so your issue is going to be hitting with your sword.
At level one, dragon pistol isn't actually an option. It would be good for later though, I suppose.
I'd lower Str to 10-12, raise Wis to 12-14, and get weapon finesse. Possibly, I would carry two loaded pistols into combat. I don't think you're visualizing a pirate, but I sure as hell am.
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Are you going all gunslinger or multi-classing? I am making a Gunslinger / Inquistitor in PFS - on paper it looks workable.
He will wield a bastard sword and double barrel pistol. I figure to use the spells gained as enhancements to his weapons and for NPC interactions.
Other multi-class option I was thinking was Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) and Paladin. Both are Charisma based evolving into insane saves and a smite ability with spells to use on the gun.
This is just my opinion, if you are going full gunslinger without any dipping. Keep the Con and Str 14 and try to get the Dex up. Gunslingers feat Sword and Pistol needs two weapon fighting, so you might as well looking into weapons that is usuable with Weapon Finesse. A high dex will help skills, AC, and hit bonus.
With enough Grit you can use the pistol as an offhand weapon after you shoot so look into raising Wis or Cha (if you take the Mysterious Stranger Archtype).
I was thinking of dipping into fighter to grab feats like TWF and such.
Hmmm... Since guns will be your primary form of attack anyway, I'd focus on getting high Dex and a Str of 10, then getting an Agile melee weapon.
Or grab Dervish Dance.
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With enough Grit you can use the pistol as an offhand weapon after you shoot so look into raising Wis or Cha (if you take the Mysterious Stranger Archtype).
Pistol Whip doesn't seem to count it as an offhand weapon. It's actually a standard action in of itself.
I was looking at the CAD's Catch Off Guard, and if the pistol can count as an improvised weapon for melee that seems right.
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Well, there are a few solutions to your problem:
Easy way: just get a weapon cord. It is much easier to do since you are dual wielding with a melee weapon rather than another pistol. It takes a swift action (free action, but only one per round) to retrieve.
Awesome way: Take a dip of a level in two in alchemist or witch to get another limb or use your hair as a hand. Think of it, your long, flowing hyena main grabbing a bullet and then stabbing someone in the face when you do a full attack. Actually, this brings me to another option:
Feral way: Instead of relying on a sword, why not try natural attacks? A nice claw attack works nicely with having a free hand for reloading. I tend to prefer Natural attacks in this way since they do not have penalties with your manufactured weapon's hit. You will get -5 to the natural attacks though, but that is reduced to -2 with only using the multiattack feat (might be weird to argue for since your natural attacks are temporary though). This will leave a lot more room for gun and general use feats than traditional TWF. There are a lot of options for getting natural attacks (the religion trait for lamashtu, who is said to be the ancestor of gnolls, gives a 1d2 secondary bite, useless without multiattack) although most have low damage, so you might want to multiclass into something with something with sneak attack to make use of your numerous attacks. Alchemist's vivisectionist archetype is excellent since two levels gives your access to a set of claws and jaws one size category higher, which would let you have a 1d6 claw and 1d8 bite attack along with your gun. You'd end up spending about an hour making the mutagen for 20 minutes of use though (30 minutes for 30 minutes if your get level 3, and another sneak attack dice)
a lot of the suggestions mean you'd have to burn a level by dipping solely for some weird extra limb. That is a loss of bab, and pathfinders has strong support of going the full 20 levels in a class. So if you are willing, the tiefling option might be interesting. Obviously, it will not be working from first level (since it would be a bit of a waste not to get one of your 'essential' gun fighter feats at that level), but just playing a regular gunslinger until you can game the system? Well, tieflings are a good option for it.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sword-and-pistol-combat
A weapon like a cestus could allow you to still have a free hand for reloading and a melee weapon at the same time. 1d4/19-20 simple light weapon, APG.
I wouldn't dump your Str and go the finesse route. Since you have a +Str bonus, you might as well take advantage of it. The Str will help with your melee weapon attacks and damage as well as for pistol-whipping things once you get that ability.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sword-and-pistol-combat
Quite a lot of prereqs for a 1st level character.
Okay this is an early plan out from 1-10
1. Pistolero 1 1st Feat:Rapid Reload
2. CAD 1 BF: 2 Weapon Fighting
3. Witch 1 2nd Feat:Point Blank Shot (Trickery Patron, Prehensile Hair Hex, Raccoon Familiar) -The Coon is flavor, both gnolls and coons being scavengers. Focus on out of combat spells, or just general things, since combat is king
4. +1 Dex CAD 2 BF: Weapon Focus (Pistol)
5. Pistolero 2 3rd Feat: Rapid Shot
6. CAD 3 -Catch Off Guard
7. Witch 2 (Cauldron Hex -bonus to alchemy is always welcome) 4th Feat:Boon Companion
8. CAD 4 BF:Snap Shot +1 Dex
9. Pistolero 3 5th Feat: Sword & Pistol
10. Pistolero 4 BF: Extra Grit
Take the rest of the levels in Pistolero.
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It's not your build, but a gunslinger (musket master)/fighter (weaponmaster) multiclass can get good use out of an axe musket with all the bonuses of Weapon Focus/Specialization and Weapon Training applying to a single weapon.
At low levels, you can also use one of your fighter bonus feats for Opening Volley: take a ranged touch attack with musket, then charge your opponent with a +6 on top of your normal melee roll.
Okay I have to ask this:
Why not this feat? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/gunslinger
It's effectively the same as Sword and Pistol without the massive feat investment.
I fully understand how it is when you get a concept, and this doesn't really help the melee weapon issue... but if you're not set on gnoll, look at Ratfolk. Specifically, the Gulch Gunner racial gunslinger build. Specifically made to shove a pistol into someone's gut and do more damage.
Yeah I'm defiantly set on gnoll this time. And I'm certainly getting a weapon cord.
dotting. I have a level 5 build like this.
My first build involves a Pistol then switching to a Pepperbox and Cestus alongside a Shortsword/Gladius w/ weapon cord. And maybe even crafting a Dagger Pistol as well.
My other build involves a Pistol and raising it to +5 ASAP then paying the difference between the +5 Pistol and a Pistol of the Infinite Sky (Ultimate Equipment). Then maybe making a Second PotIS and a Glove of Storing alongside a Bastard Sword. The pistols' names shall be Ebony and Ivory. The sword will be named Force Edge and have the Impact Property just for flavor.
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i didn't read all the replies, but I have a gunslingerX/monk1 that runs into melee with a double barreled blunderbuss (10' range, probably a typo but he's a PFS character) and shoots people in the face without problems because of deft shootist deed. Improved unarmed strike means he can provide flanking.
I would advise not going a "fun" race like gnoll or goblin for kingmaker. The story takes itself pretty seriously, and the "fun" races really don't fit into it well.
I mean, why on earth would the Swordlords hire a gnoll to go exploring for them.
Just cause a race is a Gnoll, Catfolk, Kobold, (My 3 favorite races, have I mentioned that I'm the anti-power gamer?) doesn't mean thy aren't any more or less serious then a core race. I think most rpgs are way too human centric for my tastes anyway. As far as why? Think about how many times they have sent people into the Stolen Lands and they fail. Why not take a chance on the gnoll that DOESN'T eat your population and is looking for coin? After all a savage scary monster operating as your lay of law is just the ticket to put some fear into those bandits, you have invested so much into getting rid, and failed so hard time and time again.
Also just to drop the point but not open the can of worms completly and derail the subject, but no matter the race, a Pally or any G flavor character can not kill a child of any other sentinet race. Anyway that's another trade and rants of mine.
Back to topic:
Seriously what's the difference between these two feats?
1. Gunslinger
It looks like the feat called gunslinger is better and needs less prereqs to get what I want. And if you take Gunslinger why take S&P?
I would advise not going a "fun" race like gnoll or goblin for kingmaker. The story takes itself pretty seriously, and the "fun" races really don't fit into it well.
I mean, why on earth would the Swordlords hire a gnoll to go exploring for them.
Having just played Kingmaker, I don't think there's anything wrong with picking a "fun" race, but I'd avoid "evil" races.
Feral way: Instead of relying on a sword, why not try natural attacks?
I like that plan!
Another option might be to use Quick Draw. You could fight with one weapon (I'd suggest a scimitar via Dervish Dance) and then just draw and shoot a pistol whenever you feel like it.
Ranged mode = Pistolero
Melee mode = Dervish Dance
Blended mode = Draw whatever you want as a free action, and go to town. You might have to drop a weapon every once in a while, but not often.
i didn't read all the replies, but I have a gunslingerX/monk1 that runs into melee with a double barreled blunderbuss (10' range, probably a typo but he's a PFS character) and shoots people in the face without problems because of deft shootist deed. Improved unarmed strike means he can provide flanking.
Where did you get a Double Barreled Blunderbuss!?
Where did you get a Double Barreled Blunderbuss!?i didn't read all the replies, but I have a gunslingerX/monk1 that runs into melee with a double barreled blunderbuss (10' range, probably a typo but he's a PFS character) and shoots people in the face without problems because of deft shootist deed. Improved unarmed strike means he can provide flanking.
Probably a Blunderbuss version of the shotgun?
Or Double Barreled Musket?
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I did this combo with a Ranger(2)/Monk(2)/Musket Master(X) build. The idea is to use catch-off-guard when people enter melee range to beat them to submission (that and stunning fist) before backing up and shooting them in the face.
Why bother switching out weapons when you can just use your musket as one?
Okay doing a little tweaking
Str:16
Dex:16
Con:12
Int:12
Wis:14
Cha:8
Feats:
1. Pistolero 1 1st Feat: Rapid Reload. (Leaning to Quick Draw though)
2. CAD 1 BF: Dodge
3. Witch 1 2nd:Mobility (lemeres's advice on prehensile hair makes me smile)
4. +1 Dex CAD 2 BF: Deft Shootist Deed (as long as I have a grit point I don't provoke in melee.)
5. Pistolero 2 3rd: Two Weapon Fighting
6. CAD 3 -For Catch off Guard
7. Witch 2 4th: Boon Companion
8. +1 Dex CAD 4 BF: Point Blank Shot
9. Pistolero 3 5th feat:Rapid Shot
10. Pistolero 4 BF: Weapon Focus: Pistol
11. Pistolero 5 6th: Snap Shot
12. +1 Wis Pistolero 7
13. Pistolero 7 7th: Combat Reflexes
14. Pistolero 8 BF: EWP: Aldori Dueling Sword
15. Pistolero 9 8th: Combat Patrol
16. +1 Wis Pistolero 10
17. Pistolero 11 9th: Signature Deed - Up Close and Deadly
18. Pistolero 12 BF:Critical Focus
19. Pistolero 13 10th: Critical Blinding
20. +1 Str Pistolero 14
Seems a fun build...
I have a player who is building an Alchemist/Pistolero who is going to have 4 arms and uses a Pistol and Greatsword...
So much talk about reloading and gun-juggling. Just spend 1000gp on a Benefical Bandolier, and spend a free action to teleport the bullets int othe barrel. You can get it at about second level if you get enough money.
Problem solved.
Beneficial Bandolier... Huh, I totally missed that item... Though doesn't that only work once a turn?
Something I sketched to show the idea.
I named his familiar Leadball.
Something I sketched to show the idea.
I named his familiar Leadball.
Leadball... Have you read "Black Powder BANG!"(Little known Doujinshi Manga)?
This really sounds like a fun build.
Might I recommend a Beneficial Bandolier and Endless Bandolier until you can hopefully acquire a Pistol of the Infinite Sky.
Leadball... Have you read "Black Powder BANG!"(Little known Doujinshi Manga)?Something I sketched to show the idea.
I named his familiar Leadball.
No but now you got me wanting to look it up.
So much talk about reloading and gun-juggling. Just spend 1000gp on a Benefical Bandolier, and spend a free action to teleport the bullets int othe barrel. You can get it at about second level if you get enough money.
Problem solved.
Beneficial Bandolier requires a swift action, not a free action, which means it can only be done once per turn. It's still a good item for a melee/pistol build though, since it would let you get off two shots on the first turn, and one shot every turn after that, without having a free hand for loading. Gunslingers don't use a lot of swift actions, so your not giving up much by way of action economy.
Other options for a gunslinger mixing melee and ranged attacks:
1) Spiked gauntlets have no restrictions on holding an item while using them to attack. Technically, you could even use them to melee when wielding two pistols, as long as the pistols are held in both hands and not dangling on a weapon cord.
2) A dwarf gunslinger could use a dwarven boulder helmet (a martial weapon for a dwarf) in melee without dropping their gun(s).
3) A half-orc gunslinger with the Toothy alternate racial trait can make bite attacks; this can be combined with option 1).
@KingmanHighborn & lantzkev: Try figuring out the Japanese name and Kanji for it. The only reason why I know about it is I know the mangakas' daughter.