So if you start off as gargantuan, what happens?


Rules Questions


If you were to start the game as say.. a skinwalker or tiefling using the alternate heritage rules, having a rune giant heritage...

What would your starting stat adjustment be?

You'd be gargantuan, but what would that do other than weapon properties?

How would it affect strength score?

This is LEGAL as per raw, fits into lore, and is possibly RAI so what does it do?


Good news: You're insanely overpowered, with around a +24 to Strength, +12 to Constitution, +9 to natural armor, and only a -4 to Dexterity to "balance it out". Congrats. You win the game.

Bad news: You can't go anywhere nice and people are constantly trying to rope you down while you sleep.

I don't think this does what you think it does.


No stat adjustment, but you have a +4 bonus to CMB and CMD, a -4 penalty on AC and attack rolls, and your weapons deal damage 3 steps higher than they normally would.


I like the first reply better but I'm more convinced of the seconds validity, can I get a source on these rules?

I'm yearning for a vital strike build

Is range. Affected by weapon size or just reach?


I honestly have no clue what any of these rules are, I'm just going by the basic stat adjustments for Gargantuan. ;)

And size has no effect on range, though really there should be something like that for composite bows.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I honestly have no clue what any of these rules are, I'm just going by the basic stat adjustments for Gargantuan. ;)

Honestly I'm just trying to make a double crossbow be effective

Though part of me wants to be a big menacing pacifist healer


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:


Bad news: You can't go anywhere nice and people are constantly trying to rope you down while you sleep.

you're only about 4 times as big as a human, so you're what? 22 feet tall? that's not what I'd consider rope down during your sleep just yet. that's just a paltry 2 stories.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Dustyboy wrote:

I like the first reply better but I'm more convinced of the seconds validity, can I get a source on these rules?

I'm yearning for a vital strike build

Is range. Affected by weapon size or just reach?

I believe the rules are you only get stat adjustments from polymorph like spells, and do not naturally gain stats for being a size.

range is affected by character size, nothing to do with the weapon beyond how reach adjusts it.


Bandw2 wrote:
Dustyboy wrote:

I like the first reply better but I'm more convinced of the seconds validity, can I get a source on these rules?

I'm yearning for a vital strike build

Is range. Affected by weapon size or just reach?

I believe the rules are you only get stat adjustments from polymorph like spells, and do not naturally gain stats for being a size.

range is affected by character size, nothing to do with the weapon beyond how reach adjusts it.

Do you have a link to even those rules? Or the term to search? I keep finding different rules for size adjustment


Basically, you can have tieflings, aasimar, etc. that are born from some humanoid species, rather than just human.

"Other humanoids see tieflings in their midst as well...blablabla...In game terms, the difference between non-human tieflings and human tieflings is purely a matter of size. Unless they have specific tiefling-related size modifiers, the tieflings of each of these races are the same size as their non-fiendish ancestors. They gain any of the bonuses or penalties related to that size, but gain no racial bonuses except those of the tiefling; beyond size, their humanoid ancestry is purely cosmetic."

So your size changes, but your ability scores don't. The bestiary size advancement rules are for Monster Creation/Advancement, as guidelines for GMs. The polymorph rules are specific to those spells. Ability scores don't change with size unless the rules you're using to change size say they do, and the rules for non-human tieflings and the like say that nothing changes but your size.

You could use a double crossbow, but I would suggest (disclamer: for theorizing purposes only) going with a double hackbut. With enlarge person or a similar effect, you'll be dealing 16d8 base damage. With Vital Strike and Furious Finish, that's 252 base damage, targeting touch AC, and easily achievable by level 6.


Avoron wrote:

Basically, you can have tieflings, aasimar, etc. that are born from some humanoid species, rather than just human.

"Other humanoids see tieflings in their midst as well...blablabla...In game terms, the difference between non-human tieflings and human tieflings is purely a matter of size. Unless they have specific tiefling-related size modifiers, the tieflings of each of these races are the same size as their non-fiendish ancestors. They gain any of the bonuses or penalties related to that size, but gain no racial bonuses except those of the tiefling; beyond size, their humanoid ancestry is purely cosmetic."

So your size changes, but your ability scores don't. The bestiary size advancement rules are for Monster Creation/Advancement, as guidelines for GMs. The polymorph rules are specific to those spells. Ability scores don't change with size unless the rules you're using to change size say they do, and the rules for non-human tieflings and the like say that nothing changes but your size.

You could use a double crossbow, but I would suggest (disclamer: for theorizing purposes only) going with a double hackbut. With enlarge person or a similar effect, you'll be dealing 16d8 base damage. With Vital Strike and Furious Finish, that's 252 base damage, targeting touch AC, and easily achievable by level 6.

I was considering bolt ace, fly bye attack and the bat skinwalker so I could do it from the air >.>

1 dip in sorcerer or wizard for grab bow and abundant ammo

Using special bolts with a 3 dip in grenadier alchemist for purposes of applying explosive things


Greater Hat of Disguise gets you medium or small sized where applicable.

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