In-world PFS Question: The World Moves On

[Chris Mortika]

Do we know yet who has filled the roles that Paracountess Draleen, Colonel Maldriss, and Amenopheus have left open, as ambassadors to Absalom?

Is Lady Morilla still the Taldan ambassador, or have her efforts with the Sovereign Court taken her away from that?

I might recommend that we decommission First Steps, part 1. It's more confusing for new players than illuminating. I could well imagine some GMs trying to update the scenario by having Paracountess Draleen speak of the Dark Archive, or replacing Amenopheus with the current ambassador from Osirion.

[rknop]

I second the recommendation that First Steps at least get a cosmetic makeover so that it references the current factions, or that it be retired.

With Wounded Wisp, if you're willing to count Master of the Fallen Fortress, we do have three evergreen scenarios. I don't have Wounded Wisp myself yet, so I can't comment as to what would be the idea order for running the three in order to induct a newbie into PFS, but you can get all the way through level I with that, just as was the case when there were three First Steps scenarios.

[LazarX]

In some cases, those roles simply don't exist any more.

As far as First Steps is concerned, I think it's simply time to retire the last of that trilogy, (2, and 3 have already been phased out) as it's effectively replaced by Confirmation.

[Ascalaphus]

@rknop: there's some other evergreens too; various 1-2 modules for example, and Wee Be Goblins.

I enjoyed First Steps I, but I also think it's not really all that suitable for replay. The Confirmation's random elements make that one much more enjoyable to replay.

[Pirate Rob]

LazarX wrote:

In some cases, those roles simply don't exist any more.

Are you suggesting that Andoran, Osirion or Cheliax would cease having an ambassador with the largest and most powerful city in the world?

[LazarX]

Robert Hetherington wrote:

LazarX wrote:

In some cases, those roles simply don't exist any more.

Are you suggesting that Andoran, Osirion or Cheliax would cease having an ambassador with the largest and most powerful city in the world?

What I am suggesting is that these replacements aren't going to be having the same level of side hobbies of interacting with the Society.

[David Neilson]

Most likely very intentionally as well. Well until you get the Sovereign Court to chat them up.

[Iammars]

Amenopheus was never the Ambassador of Osirion to Absalom. That's Dremdhet Salhar. Amenopheus was his assistant.

But yeah, First Steps I needs to go now.

[kinevon]

I agree, if only to get rid of the statement from one of the faction heads that the Pathfinder Society had too many factions in it, so we started another one.

["Auntie" Baltwin]

I know I've moved on - after those meddling kid...errr... pathfinders came by "investigating my "home", and I found out how much they got PAID to do it, I joined up.

Best thing I've done sense taking in orphans, and a lot less work I tell you!

[Chris Mortika]

Yes. Since players have adopted the NPCs of Auntie Baltwin and Ledford as their PCs, retiring the scenario would avoid confusion there, too.

[rknop]

Heh... totally adopting Drandle Dreng as a PC. :)

[nosig]

rknop wrote:

Heh... totally adopting Drandle Dreng as a PC. :)

Cleric with the Domains Madness and Death? (as in first he makes you Mad and then you Die?)?

[Farrindor]

Chris Mortika wrote:

Yes. Since players have adopted the NPCs of Auntie Baltwin and Ledford as their PCs, retiring the scenario would avoid confusion there, too.

My character Prism was raised in Auntie Baldwin ' s orphanage... one of my better back storied characters too...

[Mattastrophic]

On a similar note, I had my character move into Amara Li's old digs, since First Steps II was retired and the property was on the market.

-Matt

[Gwen Smith]

I'd like to see a new "first steps" pair of scenarios that would lead up to the Confirmation. We used to try to run In Service to Lore, then Fallen Fortress, and then Confirmation, making Confirmation the capstone of 1st level.

I have a big problem running the Confirmation for first-time players: it's all "Yay! You finished your training (which you know nothing about) and you get some meaningful tokens (from people you've never heard of) and now you're ready to commit to a path in the Society (unless you completely change your build)." It's painful running Confirmation with a table of pre-gens: the whole "why are you here and what do you think the society means to you?" discussion is usually an awkward, 10-minute staring contest.

Don't get me wrong: I love the Confirmation. I like it much more than the First Steps series. I just don't think it should be any player's first PFS experience. First-times miss too much of the cool stuff and get quizzed on stuff they've never heard of. ("Surely you know the tenets of the society by now..." Um...no, Janira, I don't. It's my first day here.)

[Nimrandir]

Dorothy Lindman wrote:

I'd like to see a new "first steps" pair of scenarios that would lead up to the Confirmation. We used to try to run In Service to Lore, then Fallen Fortress, and then Confirmation, making Confirmation the capstone of 1st level.

I have a big problem running the Confirmation for first-time players: it's all "Yay! You finished your training (which you know nothing about) and you get some meaningful tokens (from people you've never heard of) and now you're ready to commit to a path in the Society (unless you completely change your build)." It's painful running Confirmation with a table of pre-gens: the whole "why are you here and what do you think the society means to you?" discussion is usually an awkward, 10-minute staring contest.

Don't get me wrong: I love the Confirmation. I like it much more than the First Steps series. I just don't think it should be any player's first PFS experience. First-times miss too much of the cool stuff and get quizzed on stuff they've never heard of. ("Surely you know the tenets of the society by now..." Um...no, Janira, I don't. It's my first day here.)

Funny -- I'm running Master of the Fallen Fortress first, then First Steps, then Confirmation.

The Confirmation spoiler:

Did that approach ever ruffle any feathers for people when they see that the arrangement cost them a benefit on the Confirmation Chronicle (the discount on wayfinder enhancements)? I mean, I've never used it, but I was kinda bummed when my first Confirmed Pathfinder missed out on something.

[Ascalaphus]

The Confirmation's boon does kinda push it to be your actual first scenario. Further, I kinda resent MotFF for being a 1-prestige adventure. An updated MotFF might be nice too.

[ElyasRavenwood]

I would prefer to keep first steps part 1 around. I think it is better to have more scenarios rather then less scenarios.

[nosig]

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I would prefer to keep first steps part 1 around. I think it is better to have more scenarios rather then less scenarios.

I agree with the above statement.

[Yiroep]

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I would prefer to keep first steps part 1 around. I think it is better to have more scenarios rather then less scenarios.

Also agreed. I mean, there are tons of story anomalies that don't work for the current year if you play the earlier seasons. Don't really see how this is much different.

[Nefreet]

Continuity-wise, the better order would be:

1) Master of the Fallen Fortress (pre-membership),
2) The Confirmation (membership training),
3) In Service to Lore (full membership)

[Ferious Thune]

Nefreet wrote:

Continuity-wise, the better order would be:

1) Master of the Fallen Fortress (pre-membership),
2) The Confirmation (membership training),
3) In Service to Lore (full membership)

I agree with this from a story/continuity standpoint, but as others have said, I don't like Master of the Fallen Fortress as the first scenario for a couple of reason. First, it's got a lot of combat. If a group of new characters plays it, there won't be a Wand of CLW among the group. Resting is a possibility, but it's less than ideal. Second, it only gives 1 prestige, so even after going through the scenario, the group still won't have a CLW wand amongst them. The Confirmation is more survivable without the wand, since there are items available in it that can help.

I haven't played or read The Wounded Wisp yet, but I imagine something like 1) The Confirmation, 2) In Service to Lore, 3) The Wounded Wisp might work and remove the module from the group entirely (or swap First Steps and Confirmation if you want, and just flavor First Steps as happening during their training). That way everyone has a chance to finish first level with full prestige. I'd like to see First Steps I stay around at least until there is a third evergreen scenario so that you don't have to go outside actual PFS scenarios at 1st level.

[waltero]

I personally liked the 3 First Steps. If you ignore the faction implications, they followed a nice pattern of city adventure, dungeon delve and finally wilderness adventure.

[Chris Mortika]

Walter, I concur. (I've run the entire series once, after parts 2 and 3 were retired, for friends who wanted to see what they were like, and who didn't care about the PFS credit.) I think that Part 2 is one of the best dungeon delves in the ouvre.

"Master of the Fallen Fortress" is another one of my favorite adventures.

For PFS I start by asserting that the PCs are *not* Pathfinders yet. They're all hopeful applicants at the gates of the Grand Lodge, having come from Desna knows where. And they all get rejected. (I play this out: "Tell us who you are, and where you come from, and why you want to be a Pathfinder agent." "All right. And you (pointing to another player) explain why he gets rejected."

So, they're sitting in a bar in the Coins district, trying to figure out where they should go from here. (The Aspis Consortium might be hiring ....) When there's a tremor. Five minutes later, a fellow in a hap-hazard guards uniform comes in, asking if anybody's seen guard captain Antaroth. Seems that one of the formerly-sealed siege towers has partially collapsed, and the guard needs to secure it by morning.

And the PCs always take the bait and light out, hoping to prove themselves to the Society by exploring the tower.

So, when they rescue the bard at the end, and return to Absalom, their admission into the Society is the resolution of an arc.

[GM Lamplighter]

Fallen Fortress is worth double GM credit towards stars, maybe it wouldn't be out of line to give it proper prestige is well. It has more combat than a regular scenario, is clearly designed to be a "first" scenario, adn doesn't give out adequate rewards.

I know fixing this creates all sorts of retcon issues for people, but to me, the more scenarios we have that give differing amount of stars/prestige/XP for the same time investment, the less meaningful the reward system becomes.

[John Compton]

Chris Mortika wrote:

Do we know yet who has filled the roles that Paracountess Draleen, Colonel Maldriss, and Amenopheus have left open, as ambassadors to Absalom?

Is Lady Morilla still the Taldan ambassador, or have her efforts with the Sovereign Court taken her away from that?

There is no published information about that to date, but there are plans regarding at least one of these vacant positions.

[Nefreet]

GM Lamplighter wrote:

Fallen Fortress is worth double GM credit towards stars, maybe it wouldn't be out of line to give it proper prestige is well.

That's a feature of all of the Free RPG Day modules.

[Ascalaphus]

GM Lamplighter wrote:

Fallen Fortress is worth double GM credit towards stars, maybe it wouldn't be out of line to give it proper prestige is well. It has more combat than a regular scenario, is clearly designed to be a "first" scenario, adn doesn't give out adequate rewards.

I know fixing this creates all sorts of retcon issues for people, but to me, the more scenarios we have that give differing amount of stars/prestige/XP for the same time investment, the less meaningful the reward system becomes.

I think you have a good point here. I think it's almost perverse that a scenario that gives players only half the normal reward gives the GM a double reward.

Anyway, I personally prefer The Confirmation. All the random stuff makes it a lot more fun for me to replay.

[nosig]

And I kind of prefer First Steps... but then I even liked the two that they retired.

Kind of wish they hadn't...

[Viskous]

Me too, Nosig, me too.

The 2nd part was one of my favorite lowbie dungeon delves.

[Codanous]

I can attest to the 2nd part being one of my favorite low level dungeon delves. It was a great starter to what groups might encounter in a dungeon at all levels. It had a little of everything and I would love for it to come back with just some of the fluff for Shadow and Lantern Lodge taken out.

[Leathert]

Wounded Wisp actually addresses wether the PCs have been confirmed or not, which makes it possible (fluff-wise) to run it either before or after The Confirmation, both work. As it also happens in Absalom, and has some helpful PCs, healing isn't that difficult in it, so it might be a nice first scenario. MotFF before it would fit the fluff best, but the survivability problem does exist. (I did kill a PC last time I ran MotFF).