Ability score bonuses as feats?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Sczarni

If there were a feat that gave +2 to an ability score, what kinds of characters would take it? Would everybody take it? Nobody?

If you could take it multiple times, how many times would you take it?

If there were six such feats, one for each ability score, how many would you take?


+2 seems a bit too powerful, unless you're putting it behind a feat tax or something.

I like the idea of being able to overcome your natural-born terrible stats, but +2 allows for some inhuman "natural" strength (45 str), even if it was a +1 bonus it would allow for ridiculous stats.

I vaguely like the idea, but it would not fly at my table. Do what you want at your table, but don't say "b-but st-stop min m-maxers".


1 person marked this as a favorite.

+2 to an ability score for a feat would be much too strong for a feat. For primary casters like wizards and sorcerers there is very little more valuable than raising their primary casting stat. They would probably just take this feat at every opportunity, using their bonus feats to cover anything else they might want. Only spell perfection would be worth going out of your way for, IMO.

Casters are the big winner with a feat like this, because they're so SAD. Other classes wouldn't benefit quite as much, but I'd imagine two-handed weapon fighters would love the strength boost, and the constitution boost would be appreciated by just about everybody (a better version of toughness). I actually can't think of any class that would pass on this altogether. Even very MAD classes like the Monk could still make it work, although probably not as well as other classes.

Limiting this feat so it could only be taken once per attribute would prevent it from being obscene with spellcasters, but it's still too good for a single feat. In addition, it has a glaring flaw: it's a boring and flavorless selection that's mandatory because of just how good it is.

My thoughts: just use a higher point buy.


I would not allow this. It gives too much for one feat.
Everyone can find a use for it, and caster built around SoD/SoS would take it multiple times if they could most likely.
How many times I would take it would depend on the class I was making.

Dark Archive

I'd say +1 for a feat with prerequisites as follows to make it better:

Strength Prereqs: Power Attack, Str <17
Constitution Prereqs: Great Fortitude, Con <17
Dexterity: Lightning Reflexes, Dex <17
Intelligence: Skill Focus(Int Based Skill), Int <17
Wisdom: Iron Will, Wis <17
Charisma: Skill Focus(Cha Based Skill), Cha <17


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The Epic Level Handbook for D&D 3.0 had a feat that granted +1 to an ability score and required a character to be 21st level or higher. The proposed feat is clearly superior to that feat and thus probably overpowered.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Sounds like Minmax: "I traded the ability to read for a +1 to hit."


I was at first thinking "Ok, so this is kind of like a better weapon focus", because I mostly play martial characters.

But then I thought "Oh, so the human wizard is going to have 24 starting INT?".

If there was such a feat, it would need a ton of caveats.
-feat tax
-low gains
-if it can be taken multiple times, space them WAY apart (look at eidolons for something of an example)
-Maybe just make it one feat that could do any ability score, but it has to apply to a different ability score each time


Strictly by the numbers this feat is numerically superior to multiple feats. Taken for Con it gives you toughness and half of great fortitude, plus extra HP before dying. Taken for STR it gives you +1 to hit and damage with all melee attacks, extra carrying capacity and a bonus on multiple skills. INT gives you an extra skill point per level, a bonus on the DC of your spells saves, and extra spells per day. I could go on but you get the idea.

A feat should be about equal to existing feats not clearly superior. Even at a +1 it is overpowered.

Scarab Sages

Everyone's kinda echoing what I'm thinking. In a low magic, E6 style game, I could see that being used. In fact, there are rules for it once characters reach 6th level. But in a normal game? It makes lots of feats obsolete. What Fighter in their right mind would take Weapon Focus/Specialization when they could get +2 to Strength? Even MORE if they can take it multiple times. What Paladin WOULDN'T take a +2 to Charisma? That's like a +1 to all saves PLUS an extra lay on hands PLUS etc.

I could go on and on about it, but it's too good. On a side note, I feel like a feat for a +1 to an ability score would be so weak that I would never consider it. MAYBE I'd consider starting a character with a 17 in a primary ability and then boosting it with the feat, but even then I'd feel like I was wasting the feat on a boon given out every 4 levels.

Well, here's an idea. In a low-magic, low-stat game (let's say you do a 10 point buy, or everyone starts as average, or something like that), I would allow the +2 as a feat. It'd really show how characters develop, and would make spellcasters more effective. IF I ran a game like that.


+2 to an attribute is a Mythic feat you need at least Mythic tier 3 to take, and you can only take it once for each attribute. So, yeah, it's too powerful for a regular feat, for sure, especially if you can take it multiple times for the same attribute.


+2 is way too good, as noted.

+1 is effectively +2 for half your stats because you'd use it to bump the odd scores to even (eg 13 Con becomes 14). And then it would be used in conjunction with the +1 you get every 4th level. So whilst it might look vaguely balanced at first glance, it's little weaker than +2.

+1 BUILD point might make more sense, as it would have most effect on your weaker stats, and help the MAD characters quite a bit more than the SAD. OTOH, it's as dull as dishwater.


Mudfoot wrote:
+1 BUILD point might make more sense, as it would have most effect on your weaker stats, and help the MAD characters quite a bit more than the SAD. OTOH, it's as dull as dishwater.

You mean like in the point buy (15, 20, 25)?

Actually, a feat that bumps up your point by 1 level (15->20, 20->25, etc) seems like it would be fair. It increases your scores, but the scaling costs of point buy prevents it from ever getting out of control. Mostly, it would help to round out scores on MAD classes, like monks, paladins, or the 6 level casters (who also often do melee). And it is a one time only deal at level 1.


As in point buy. So if you've paid 1 point for 11 Cha, you can use a feat to buy it up to 2 points = 12. But if you have 14 Str = 5 points, it takes 2 feats to buy it up to 15 = 7 points, and another 3 to get it to 16 = 10.

You'd want to put in something to make the part-points meaningful, but it'll be messy. Maybe integrate it with the every-4-level bumps by bringing them forward.

Adding 5 buy points is very OP. Even the SADdest level (17-18) is only 4 more points, so this gets you +1 on something else too. Otherwise it's +2 on 2 secondary stats and +1 on a third, which is almost as good as 3 of the original +2 feats. Admittedly they won't be on the character's main stat, but Everyone Would Take This.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Ability score bonuses as feats? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.