This is for a homebrew campaign that I'm starting this weekend. Not confirmed yet, but I'm assuming 20 point buy, funky races allowed.
I'm going to play a Grippli Druid. Stats are probably going to be this:
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 17
Cha 10
I'm considering dropping Charisma to boost something; maybe Dex.
The build is going to be mount-based. What I'd like, ideally, is for the character to be able to make charges from the back of the mount. With a lance, for double damage.
I see basically three options:
1) Straight Druid, big cat AC. Since a druid isn't normally proficient in any reach weapon, probably the first level feat would be Weapon Proficiency: Lance.
Pro: Won't nerf Druid class abilities like Wildshape, spells.
Con: Druid is feat starved. Gaining proficiency in a lance seems like a waste of a feat.
2) One level dip in Hunter, big cat AC.
Pro: Martial Weapon Proficiencies, a bunch of skill points, Animal Focus, which will effectively bump the AC's strength up to 15. Also, AC levels will stack. First feat might be WF: Lance. Also, boost to Reflex save.
Con: Bad BAB, and hurts Druid levels. Also, AF will be limited for Druid character throughout Druid's career.
On the plus side first wildshape level and level five feat (natural spell) will coincide, as well as Elemental Body and Cat's upgrade to Large size (does an Earth Elemental'd druid suffer from not touching the ground?)
3) One level dip in Cavalier, Wolf AC.
Pro: Good BAB, weapon proficiencies.
Con: Bad Reflex save, Wolf is subpar to Big Cat (I'm not taking two ACs and nerfing the Cat's advancement) and hurts Druid advancement. Probably not going to do this, despite BAB boost.
I guess three is off the table. I'm completely evenly split between options one and two.
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Well, I'm thinking that if you want to want to be a druid with a little bit of lance-charging, maybe the best thing to do would just be to eat the Proficiency feat. Either that or take a trait like Heirloom Weapon to get proficiency (does it still do that? I know they changed it a while ago, and I'm not really sure what it does anymore). Maybe it seems like a waste of a feat, but I guess the question would be: what else would you spend it on? How much mounted charging focus do you want?
If you want to focus on being a non-cavalier mounted charger, though, I think straight hunter might be interesting. If you're going to be mounted a lot anyway, the bonus teamwork feats that require you to be adjacent to your AC will get some good mileage. But maybe you are more interested in being a 9th level divine caster.
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If you're going mounted, I'd go Hunter. One of the main sources of Druid's strength is wildshaping into large and huge creatures for big strength bonuses and alternate movement speeds; if you're going mounted, there's no great way to use wildshape in combat. (Though, depending on the GM, you might be able to take Undersized Mount, transform into an Ape, and use a club of some sort...)
Hunters have a more powerful animal companion, get proficiency with the lance for free, and get a bevy of teamwork feats like Distracting Charge that will help you land hits in combat. Their Animal Focus also works perfectly well from the back of a mount, or you can go Primal Companion hunter and get an Evolution Pool for your cat. Want extra natural attacks? Reach? Fiery claws? Go for it!
I say raise your str, it's kinda low for a fighting type. And I'd also drop your wisdom a bit. You don't need it that high if you're focusing on fighting and not spells.
Although it will increase to large size, your animal companion never gets reach. That means if you're charging in with a reach weapon, you'll get to attack, but your companion won't get his enormous pounce attack routine. Since you only have 14 strength AND you probably don't want to invest the feat into power attack AND you don't want to spend the feats on mounted combat, ride by attack, and spirited charge, you'll do max 2D6 + 6 damage on a charge. Compare this to the damage dealt by a charging big cat, which gets 5 attacks with rake, and which will hit more often than you due to much higher STR for most of the game. Roughly 22-24 STR, 5 attacks at level 7 -> ballpark of 4d6+1d8 +5*6 damage. Without something like Cavalier's Challenge, Paladin's Smite, or Inquisitor's Bane, I wouldn't invest too much into a grippli's charge. Also, talk to your GM about map size in advance. If you're playing in an adventure path having a large mount is a liability. Their large size makes getting off a charge very unlikely.
If you like being a druid, let your cat charge while you zip around as an air elemental and launch spells. To answer your other question, I think if you were using elemental body, the earth elemental wouldn't suffer any penalties, but would lose the benefits of Earth Mastery while riding a tiger.
If you like mounted charges, pick a class that has a little more support for damage output on a charge. Inquisitors have bane and the feather domain can net you an animal companion (although you'd have to get a lance with a feat, or via a lance deity). Paladin's can take the mount option for divine bond and use smite. The Beast Rider Cavalier archetype lets you trade in your horse for a tiger while maintaining challenge.
....darn it, from the thread title, my mind went racing on the idea of how to make the most effective mounted druid.
The answer I came up with was to turn into an earth elemental (elementals can use weapons if they are humanoid-shaped, and earth elementals give the straightest melee bonuses with good strength and natural armor). Thus, combined with the fact that they have a language (which means they can talk), you could in fact go around all day as an elemental, and even buy and wear equipment for your hours/level elemental form.
Medium earth elemental suffices (and they are easy to work with; fairly close to default rage, but with armor bonus too), I guess, but I like large better for stats and battlefield presence (your large lance hits like a greatsword- that and the +6 str and natural armor means a lot, plus more reach). But actually riding as a large earth elemental seems difficult.
There are thus two ways of doing that: the new undersized mount feat (which is kind of bad for your feat starved druid), or Mammoth rider to grab a huge mount.
Not sure if any of this would actually help you. Just going on about cool ideas I had.
....darn it, from the thread title, my mind went racing on the idea of how to make the most effective mounted druid.
The answer I came up with was to turn into an earth elemental (elementals can use weapons if they are humanoid-shaped, and earth elementals give the straightest melee bonuses with good strength and natural armor). Thus, combined with the fact that they have a language (which means they can talk), you could in fact go around all day as an elemental, and even buy and wear equipment for your hours/level elemental form.
Medium earth elemental suffices (and they are easy to work with; fairly close to default rage, but with armor bonus too), I guess, but I like large better for stats and battlefield presence (your large lance hits like a greatsword- that and the +6 str and natural armor means a lot, plus more reach). But actually riding as a large earth elemental seems difficult.
There are thus two ways of doing that: the new undersized mount feat (which is kind of bad for your feat starved druid), or Mammoth rider to grab a huge mount.
Not sure if any of this would actually help you. Just going on about cool ideas I had.
The Earth Elemental shape was kind of my thought, too, except I don't know if the Earth Mastery penalty/bonuses apply to elementally shaped druids. Does anyone know the answer to this before I take it to the rules board?
I say raise your str, it's kinda low for a fighting type. And I'd also drop your wisdom a bit. You don't need it that high if you're focusing on fighting and not spells.
... and now that I'm recalculating, those numbers aren't adding up. That Wisdom should only be a 16.
Note that the Grippli is fighting a -2 racial strength penalty. This is one of the reasons I want to charge with a lance, starting at first level. Charge bonus to attack rolls combined with double damage weapon bonus is supposed to close the gap at low level.
I guess I'm leaning toward straight druid. While Hunter is probably the best way to go for a pure melee build, I don't just want to focus on melee. I have yet to find a class that's as good at switch-hitting between massive amounts of damage and utility work (via wildshape, for example).
To answer your other question, I think if you were using elemental body, the earth elemental wouldn't suffer any penalties, but would lose the benefits of Earth Mastery while riding a tiger.
This doesn't make sense to me. The druid can't get the bonus for touching earth and not get the huge penalty when seperated from it.
To the Rules!
If you're going mounted, I'd go Hunter. One of the main sources of Druid's strength is wildshaping into large and huge creatures for big strength bonuses and alternate movement speeds; if you're going mounted, there's no great way to use wildshape in combat. (Though, depending on the GM, you might be able to take Undersized Mount, transform into an Ape, and use a club of some sort...)
Hunters have a more powerful animal companion, get proficiency with the lance for free, and get a bevy of teamwork feats like Distracting Charge that will help you land hits in combat. Their Animal Focus also works perfectly well from the back of a mount, or you can go Primal Companion hunter and get an Evolution Pool for your cat. Want extra natural attacks? Reach? Fiery claws? Go for it!
Distracting charge is pretty great. I may just take this anyway.
... except a mount and the PC riding it sort of take the same action, right? How would this work in action?
The Earth Elemental shape was kind of my thought, too, except I don't know if the Earth Mastery penalty/bonuses apply to elementally shaped druids. Does anyone know the answer to this before I take it to the rules board?....darn it, from the thread title, my mind went racing on the idea of how to make the most effective mounted druid.
The answer I came up with was to turn into an earth elemental (elementals can use weapons if they are humanoid-shaped, and earth elementals give the straightest melee bonuses with good strength and natural armor). Thus, combined with the fact that they have a language (which means they can talk), you could in fact go around all day as an elemental, and even buy and wear equipment for your hours/level elemental form.
Medium earth elemental suffices (and they are easy to work with; fairly close to default rage, but with armor bonus too), I guess, but I like large better for stats and battlefield presence (your large lance hits like a greatsword- that and the +6 str and natural armor means a lot, plus more reach). But actually riding as a large earth elemental seems difficult.
There are thus two ways of doing that: the new undersized mount feat (which is kind of bad for your feat starved druid), or Mammoth rider to grab a huge mount.
Not sure if any of this would actually help you. Just going on about cool ideas I had.
You get what elemental body give you (besides form things like hands, or natural attacks; polymorph pretty much covers that). So if it doesn't give earth mastery, you do not get earth mastery. Technically, that ability is also a buff (not worth it, but eh), and polymorph spells do not give you buffs they do not specify
To answer your other question, I think if you were using elemental body, the earth elemental wouldn't suffer any penalties, but would lose the benefits of Earth Mastery while riding a tiger.
This doesn't make sense to me. The druid can't get the bonus for touching earth and not get the huge penalty when seperated from it.
To the Rules!
Maybe I'm missing something. What are the penalties you're talking about? Is there something in the Earth Elemental description that makes them weak when not touching the earth? My impression was just that they only got the Earth Mastery Bonus when touching the ground. Also of note, you don't get the Earth Mastery ability from wild shape, so as far as I can tell, you suffer no penalties and lose no abilities for riding a mount as an earth elemental.
Maybe I'm missing something. What are the penalties you're talking about? Is there something in the Earth Elemental description that makes them weak when not touching the earth? My impression was just that they only got the Earth Mastery Bonus when touching the ground. Also of note, you don't get the Earth Mastery ability from wild shape, so as far as I can tell, you suffer no penalties and lose no abilities for riding a mount as an earth elemental.
To answer your other question, I think if you were using elemental body, the earth elemental wouldn't suffer any penalties, but would lose the benefits of Earth Mastery while riding a tiger.
This doesn't make sense to me. The druid can't get the bonus for touching earth and not get the huge penalty when seperated from it.
To the Rules!
Earth Mastery gives a +1 attack bonus when both you an the opponent touch the ground.....and a -4 to attack when either side are not on the ground.
It is a large nerf to the creature to make sure they don't smack the wizard around using reach. Water elementals get a similar deal.
Meanwhile, Air elementals force flying enemies to take a -1, and fire elementals burn things. SO yeah, totally fair (admittedly, earth glide and tremor sense are kind of awesome)
Anyway, yeah, you are right- earth mastery is not there. You never get that ability. So live it up and ride a huge tiger.