Looking at an ettin, with a 7 BAB shouldn't it get an extra attack with each arm due to a high BAB?
It does. That is why it says 2 flails +12/+7. It works out as +12/+12/+7/+7.
Yup. Compare the marilith entry, which has its off-hand attacks as "5 +1 longswords +24 (2d6+4/17–20)", working out to +24/+24/+24/+24/+24 just for its off-hands.
Edit: Though I'm not sure how the ettin is getting a second off-hand attack without Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. Monsters cheat, I suppose.
Yup. Compare the marilith entry, which has its off-hand attacks as "5 +1 longswords +24 (2d6+4/17–20)", working out to +24/+24/+24/+24/+24 just for its off-hands.
Edit: Though I'm not sure how the ettin is getting a second off-hand attack without Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. Monsters cheat, I suppose.
Monster play by the exact same rules as players unless specifically noted.
The ettin gets a second off-hand attack because each arm is independently controlled by one of its heads. In essence (At least for attacking), its two creatures in one body.
Yup. Compare the marilith entry, which has its off-hand attacks as "5 +1 longswords +24 (2d6+4/17–20)", working out to +24/+24/+24/+24/+24 just for its off-hands.
Edit: Though I'm not sure how the ettin is getting a second off-hand attack without Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. Monsters cheat, I suppose.
Nope. It has a special ability.
"Superior Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex) An ettin fights with a flail or javelin in each hand. Because each of its two heads controls an arm, the ettin does not take a penalty on attack or damage rolls for attacking with two weapons."
Each head controls one arm, and that means each head gets one extra attack. Basically it is like two creatures in one body, for the purpose of getting extra attacks anyway.
Its special ability only removes the two-weapon-fighting penalty on attack and damage rolls. It doesn't actually grant them any sort of "two creatures in one body" abilities--at least not as written. That's probably what they meant, though.
Its special ability only removes the two-weapon-fighting penalty on attack and damage rolls. It doesn't actually grant them any sort of "two creatures in one body" abilities--at least not as written. That's probably what they meant, though.
"each of its two heads controls an arm"<--copy and paste
I see that, but it has no mechanical meaning. I cannot infer from that statement alone that it allows each arm a full array of attacks.
I see that, but it has no mechanical meaning. I cannot infer from that statement alone that it allows each arm a full array of attacks.
How about from that statement plus the fact that each arm has a full array of attacks, as per the ettin's writeup?
It does. That is why it says 2 flails +12/+7. It works out as +12/+12/+7/+7.
Missed the 2
I see that, but it has no mechanical meaning. I cannot infer from that statement alone that it allows each arm a full array of attacks.How about from that statement plus the fact that each arm has a full array of attacks, as per the ettin's writeup?
I can conclude how to run it, sure, but not how it actually got the ability to make extra offhand attacks. It's basically "monsters cheat". Huge flame wars spanning dozens of threads result from far less ambiguous rules text; this one gets by because we know what they meant and nobody plays a bestiary ettin as a PC. : )
I have a player playing a Ettin Druid.
Interesting question.
If a Ettin somehow gains extra arms does it get to make full attacks with each extra arm at no additional penalties?
Only if it gains an extra head for each extra arm at the same time.
Ettin Kasatha anyone?
I can conclude how to run it, sure, but not how it actually got the ability to make extra offhand attacks. It's basically "monsters cheat". Huge flame wars spanning dozens of threads result from far less ambiguous rules text; this one gets by because we know what they meant and nobody plays a bestiary ettin as a PC. : )I see that, but it has no mechanical meaning. I cannot infer from that statement alone that it allows each arm a full array of attacks.How about from that statement plus the fact that each arm has a full array of attacks, as per the ettin's writeup?
It seems pretty clear to me, but different people interpret data differently so I understand.