Kennesty |
This is a question regarding Barbarian's Superstition.
The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.
Would you agree that because he cannot be the willing target of a spell that a cleric using a touch spell would need to make a melee touch attack as per Inflict wounds and that he would not be able to willingly drink a potion because they would know that its a spell.
claudekennilol |
Nope. My superstitious barbarian was able to drink potion, he was just mad about it. And since he almost always made the Will save, he only took half healing.
Your Barbarian would have had to make a save for a potion, as well.
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).
It is still a spell being cast, even if it is in potion form.
Unless you mean by "and since he almost always made the will save" that you actually did roll and I just misunderstood what you meant.
Driver 325 yards |
Note, that you can't be the willing target of spells while raging. When you are not raging you can drink potions to your heart's content without making a save against it.
Accordingly, heal/buff yourself before and after battle. During battle, the cleric/paladin (channeling / lay on hands) still have ways to heal you with supernatural abilities that you do not have to save against.
Kennesty |
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The issue I have is that since they can't be a willing target of a spell, drinking a potion would make you a willing target. Understandably a Will save would be made, but I would think that a melee touch would be required as the barbarian would try and defend himself from being touched and would in no way want to drink that potion.
Driver 325 yards |
The issue I have is that since they can't be a willing target of a spell, drinking a potion would make you a willing target. Understandably a Will save would be made, but I would think that a melee touch would be required as the barbarian would try and defend himself from being touched and would in no way want to drink that potion.
You are clearly correct. You cannot "willingly" drink a potion of cure light wounds. Willing does not just mean that you can't just do it without making a Will Save. Willing means you can't knowingly permit a cure spell to be cast on you while raging. So yes, they would have to make a touch attack if they knew that the touch the person was trying to deliver was meant to deliver a spell. However, this is not always clear. For instance, is the Paladin trying to touch you to deliver a Cure Light Wounds or a Lay on Hands?
Dave Justus |
You are clearly correct. You cannot "willingly" drink a potion of cure light wounds. Willing does not just mean that you can't just do it without making a Will Save. Willing means you can't knowingly permit a cure spell to be cast on you while raging. So yes, they would have to make a touch attack if they knew that the touch the person was trying to deliver was meant to deliver a spell. However, this is not always clear. For instance, is the Paladin trying to touch you to deliver a Cure Light Wounds or a Lay on Hands?
Actually willing target is a 'term of art' for the pathfinder rules set. It means voluntarily not making a save. Nothing more, nothing less.
While it is fair house rules, and thematically fitting, for a superstitious barbarian to not drink potions or that a melee touch attack is required for delivering a spell, that is just a house rule, not the way the rules are written.
Driver 325 yards |
Driver 325 yards wrote:You are clearly correct. You cannot "willingly" drink a potion of cure light wounds. Willing does not just mean that you can't just do it without making a Will Save. Willing means you can't knowingly permit a cure spell to be cast on you while raging. So yes, they would have to make a touch attack if they knew that the touch the person was trying to deliver was meant to deliver a spell. However, this is not always clear. For instance, is the Paladin trying to touch you to deliver a Cure Light Wounds or a Lay on Hands?
Actually willing target is a 'term of art' for the pathfinder rules set. It means voluntarily not making a save. Nothing more, nothing less.
While it is fair house rules, and thematically fitting, for a superstitious barbarian to not drink potions or that a melee touch attack is required for delivering a spell, that is just a house rule, not the way the rules are written.
Okay, if "willing" is a defined term and it is defined the way that you say it is, then I concede.
I would like to see where it is defined that way, however.
Kennesty |
Well from looking at http://paizo.com/prd/magic.html
Willing Target is in a completely separate paragraph.
"Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing."
And further down:
"Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality."
So i'm inclined to look at them differently.