Rynjin |
thegreenteagamer wrote:Zoobie1977 wrote:Also, if one of your players is shy and/or socially akward, and couldn't roleplay a diplomacy skill of 5+ modded if his life depended on it, then what?Then you hold them to the double-standard and penalize their ability to play a social character. Just also make sure you figure your barbarian's max bench weight before allowing him to play 16 str pre-rage and give your witch player an IQ test before allowing her to have 17 int. Because if there's anything I know, it's that if it's feasible for one human to do it, it's expected for the player to be able to do the same. [/sarcasm]
See also: Puzzles and/or Mazes (just let the wizard roll an int check if the party can't solve the dang thing so you can move on already)
Disable device? Better make sure that they can work a puzzle box.
Acrobatics? Better hope the player isn't in a wheelchair.
Bard? Well, better make sure they can carry a tune.
Joke's on you, you can make a perfectly viable Bard with a voice that can melt concrete, two left feet, can only play one very loud note on an instrument, and the inspirational qualities of a slug.
Avatar-1 |
Just imagine, if, instead of a chapter on combat, and a chapter on weapons (used in combat), and a chapter on spells (often used in combat), we just had a fight skill, and if you rolled higher, you won.
That's how diplomacy is, and that's for a game which is supposed to be a role-playing game.
That is a very, very interesting perspective.
thegreenteagamer |
The lack of rules or mechanics in this area is the single greatest weakness of Pathfinder.
Just imagine, if, instead of a chapter on combat, and a chapter on weapons (used in combat), and a chapter on spells (often used in combat), we just had a fight skill, and if you rolled higher, you won.
That's how diplomacy is, and that's for a game which is supposed to be a role-playing game. Really bad game design here, it's possible to have an entire session devolve into 'we go left" "no, right".
There's no way to fix player-player conflict within the rules. Which is why these often turn into fights, they're the only conflict resolution system with solid mechanics, so players default to them. There's literally nothing else. And it's time we had that.
I do roll bluff/sense motive between players when it comes up, and I specifically tell them that I expect them to not metagame. Usually my players are mature enough to hold up to their end of things. It's just not fair to use the player's ability to lie/tell the truth when it is not representative of their character.
Intimidate and especially diplomacy, however, are a little less applicable to player-to-player interaction. I allow players to intimidate other players, but usually only to demoralize, not to "change attitudes."
As a GM, if I had a game devolve into "we go left" "no, right", I'd simply split the party, telling those who wanted to go left that they went left, and those who wanted to go right they go right... And then I grin and specifically point out that the party is split. I make sure they notice the grin. USUALLY at this point SOMEONE will break down and switch directions. If not, well, they were warned that they split the party. When a full party's challenge level worth of mobs attacks each half on opposite sides of the dungeon, they really shouldn't be surprised.
Taku Ooka Nin |
"Social skills" are in-game concepts that allow the PCs to interact with the world. The "roleplaying" aspect of the game is active when PCs are interacting with each other, since they are more or less saying what their characters would be saying to convince each other. The ambiguity of people disagreeing with each other is immensely fun.
Typically you don't even want PCs to roll Bluff or Sense Motive against each other. However, since it is an opposed check, it can be done without any problems. Just expect the Cleric and Rogue to abuse the crap out of it.