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This character was originally a Goblin but I've made this new version a Human with a MOMS dips and I'm trying to benefit from some options in the new ACG, particularly the Pummeling Style.
Now as built, the character will only be able to use two styles at a time but it'll let him focus on offense or defense as the situation warrants. Big hits with Pummeling Style, tons of AoO's with Snake Style, big AC boost from Crane Style. Additionally, through Agile Maneuvers, Menacing Stance, Stand Still, Disruptive, Spellbreaker and No Escape I expect him to be an absolute nightmare for opposing casters.
Human 15th level Fighter (Brawler) / 2nd level Monk (Master of Many Styles)
Attributes:
STR - 12
DEX - 16 (+2; +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th, & 16th level)
CON - 14
INT - 12
WIS - 14
CHA - 7
Traits:
Quain Martial Artist
Focused Disciple
Feats:
1st - Weapon Finesse
1st - Two-Weapon Fighting
1st - Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
2nd - Improved Unarmed Strike
2nd - Stunning Fist
2nd - Snake Style
3rd - Snake Fang
3rd - Combat Reflexes
4th - Dodge
5th - Crane Style
6th - Agile Maneuvers
7th - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8th - Pummeling Style
9th - Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike
10th - Greater Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
11th - Stand Still
12th - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
13th - Pummeling Charge
14th - Weapon Specialization: Improved Unarmed Strike
15th - Disruptive
15th - Spellbreaker
16th - Greater Weapon Specialization: Improved Unarmed Strike
17th - Piranha Strike
Why are you taking agile maneuvers?
Primarily to make No Escape + Standstill work, but it offers some other benefits as well.
Not wanting to necro this thread, but I do have a question - would it be worth it at all to up STR to 13, and eventually get access to Power Attack? Or is it simply overkill?
I really like the build Wiggz, and that option jumped at me :D
It would certainly help. Or piranha strike could work as well.
Overall, this build has a lot of bonuses to attack (the replacement for weapon training that gets a point or two more, charging with pummeling style, weapon focus and greater, being full BAB, etc). So it can take the hit to attack.
While it is fair for full attack damage (mostly because pummeling charge basically gives it pounce), but I worry about the AoOs, which is a major part of this build as well as the archetype in general. You really need to punish those casters when they try to wiggle their fingers in your face. And that is this archetype's goal- to get in on casters, and then stop them from getting away using stand still+no escape.
As a note- I would get stand still much earlier to use that combo as soon as possible. And unlike most classes/archetypes that give a specific bonus feat, it lets you replace it if you have it already. So no real loss there.
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Actually - instead of bumping up the strength to 13, I'd probably dump it down and pick up an agile weapon ASAP. After all, for a brawler piranna strike is just as good (though both are overrated in my opinion) and he'd probably end up getting the aglie enchantment anyway. (It's worth it when your dex is 3+ points higher than strength.) And dumping strength would actually let him start with a dex of 20.
@Charon's Little Helper: Another question (and after checking some other of Wiggz posts I realized he recommends an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists, which actually pumps up the damage quite decently) - but even with an Agile enchanted item, Piranha Strike would still be worth it, would it not?
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@Charon's Little Helper: Another question (and after checking some other of Wiggz posts I realized he recommends an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists, which actually pumps up the damage quite decently) - but even with an Agile enchanted item, Piranha Strike would still be worth it, would it not?
It depends upon how hard your opponent is to hit. As a simplified example - if your average damage at level 6 is 16, and you hit your opponent 50% of the time, it would be a toss-up.
16 damage 50% of the time averages 8 damage.
20 damage 40% of the time averages 8 damage.
If your base damage was higher or your target was any harder to hit, it wouldn't be worth it. And vica versa.
Of course - that doesn't take into account DR (though that's not as big a deal now with pummeling strike) or any on hit things (never worth it when using stunning fist) or overkill. (If your foe only had 10 hp left in the above example - you definitely shouldn't take the accuracy penalty.) Nor does it take into account that, if you hadn't taken pirannha strike, you'd have some other feat.
Basically - it frustrates me how so many people think that power attack & pirannha strike are beneficial in EVERY situation. It's sometimes useful, especially against big & easy to hit monsters, but certainly not always. (Though the extra damage using power attack with a two-handed weapon shifts it from 'sometimes' to 'usually'.)
Basically - it frustrates me how so many people think that power attack & pirannha strike are beneficial in EVERY situation. It's sometimes useful, especially against big & easy to hit monsters, but certainly not always. (Though the extra damage using power attack with a two-handed weapon shifts it from 'sometimes' to 'usually'.)
It is better for full most full BAB characters though, not only because their BAB is better (more accuracy, more damage from power attack), but because they also usually have some other mechanic that further boosts their attack bonus.
Eventually, I think (depending on how your game is balanced), it is less a question on whether your first set of attacks will hit, but whether your 2nd and 3rd iteratives will hit. So you also have to take into account the damage bonus from the 'safe bet' hits along with the potential damage on later hits versus potential misses as well.
Overall, it is generally something worth having, at the very least. Particularly since this build tends to face off against squishy casters that it has locked down.
EDIT: ah, but Imbicatus, this is a build that dipped monk. The odd thing with monks is that their unarmed strike ABILITY not only grants improved unarmed strike, but it also has language that prevents your unarmed strikes from being 'offhand'. That means that both hands get 2:1. Over both, that is a cumulative 4:1 when you TWF (as opposed to the cumulative 3:1 that most people get with TWF). I know the increased miss chance over both arms somewhat tempers that, but it is still a slight boost. Especially since this is a pummeling build (normal TWF suffers from splitting up power attack due to DR concerns).
In looking at the feat progression above, it looks super tight and well thought out - where would you guys fit Power Attack or Piranha Strike?
I've done some quick (most likely with some incorrection) math, and at level 5, between the brawler bonus and the suggested magical items, it seems this character will be pushing a decent amount of damage, I am just not sure how it will scale.