Another XP budget question - Just how strong can one encounter go?


Advice


I'm currently working on my first (non-module) encounter for my group. My understanding that the suggested XP budget given by the book should leave the party 1/4 exhausted. So conventional wisdom is you have three such encounters before a rest. So with this in mind, you could actually multiply this budget by three for an extended encounter. For example, the suggested XP budget for a level four party is 1200, so 3600XP in one adventure shouldn't kill them. Really, I have about 4000XP divided into the first five encounters, so I'm thinking this should be OK. After that, I'm going to subtly suggest they rest before moving on. Its the second part of the encounter that worries me.

It makes sense for there to a boss monster at the end of the dungeon, so the final encounter is over the norm (1800XP) Ok, not too bad if you're at full health, but there is also a plot twist at the end where one the NPCs is going to summon some minions and turn on the group. So there is going to be another encounter at about 1200XP with no rest in between. So you might as well call it a 3000XP encounter. So in theory, there isn't enough XP in here to kill them, but pouring it over them all in one shot seems a bit hazardous. (For clarity, in this 3000XP budget, no monsters is over CR3, so its not like I'm burning my XP budget on a single overpowered monster.) Still, is this too much to throw at them at once? The book really isn't clear about budgeting XP in an ecounter vs budgeting a whole adventure. How much difference is there between three 1200XP enounters and one single 3600XP encounter?


Re Paragraph 1:

What level is your party? 4? How large are they and are you planning on throwing any really tricky stuff at them? Do you think they're equipped to handle that or are they going to have to be creative? Is there room for creativity? How generous have you been with gold/items? Are the enemies really well geared or about average? What are the environmental factors like?

The experience rules of thumb work pretty well but these factors do affect things significantly; for example you'd be sending a level 4 party up against a CR ~7.x ish encounter -some of the possibilities in that range are really difficult for a party to deal with if they're inexperienced/don't have the right tools- which is extremely difficult and can cause a wipe depending on any of a number of factors. Compound that with possible traps, or gimmicky items/effects and things can be nasty.

Re Paragraph 2:

This depends on whether they have to fight both groups at once, their level, if they can bypass one or the other without fighting, and if they've had to blow a lot of resources on the previous encounters which are critical to success at this stage.

Mobs vs the single really powerful dude: this depends a lot on the party. It sounds like we're talking low levels so probably your melee and ranger types don't have a lot of iterative attacks. So vs mobs it's pretty much going to be up to your casters.

Mobs: This means that unless you have one or two people with a lot of cleave type abilities that your party's entire ability to fight mobs/swarms is your caster(s). Hard to say in general terms if they'll still have some good aoes/ccs left at this point. I don't know your players. If they don't then mobs and swarms are a great way to wipe a party, especially if any of them have some gimmicky abilities (shadows for example are CR 3 and extremely strong against a poorly prepared/magic poor party). Generally too, mobs overwhelm tanks since there are just so many more bodies coming than they can reasonably block, and few players take combat reflexes so expect combat to hurt your squishy types "in the back" more than usual. You can compensate for these issues a bit as the DM if you think it will be a problem by leaving appropriate loot in the previous encounters/elsewhere in the dungeon and fixing the terrain so the party can be sneaky. Generally these encounters stress your healers and support types because they have to constantly worry about different people, who might be spread out over a large area, going down simultaneously.

Single Targets: These are great for melee and ranged damage heavy parties. You have your tanky types gang up on the bbeg and restrict his movement and everyone slowly whittles them down. You can better accentuate your strengths as a group because the squishies are more or less free to do their own thing and generally the healer only has to worry about one or two guys going down. Conversely in a heavily caster party single target encounters can be very difficult at early levels. They have some cantrips which can whittle down the evil guy (assuming he doesn't have resistances), but if they have had to blow their load getting to the boss they're screwed.

So really it just depends a lot on your party members and the composition of the specific encounters.


davypi wrote:
How much difference is there between three 1200XP enounters and one single 3600XP encounter?

Depends on environmental factors. If it's the difference between 'fighting as a team against one owlbear' and 'fighting three owlbears who are all attacking at once', then the latter is massively more dangerous. The party will be taking three times as much damage per round, and will have to inflict three times as much damage to win. One owlbear is a CR 4 encounter and three is a CR 7 encounter.

But if you can get in a situation where three owlbears are stuck in a corridor and can only attack one at a time, it's not much more dangerous than three separate encounters.


The group is five level 4 PCs plus an L4 NPC. I'm not factoring the NPC into the XP budget, so they actually have a little help on the first block of encounters until he turns on them. I think its fair to say that we really don't have a ranged character in the group. The Cleric does use a bow, but he also has to do the healing. A couple of players (druid / summoner) still haven't figured out how to play their classes very well. The team likes to lean on flanking strategies, but mobs can do that just as good as they can.

1) The 3000XP block is separated into five rooms. One monster is CR3, one room is a swarm of CR 1/2, all others are CR2 in singles or pairs. Based on the pre-fab module I've already played with them, I think its very well paced and I'm willing to fudge the last room in their favor if something goes south. There is no loot that will help them on the way, but according to the "wealth by character level" chart, they are about 20% over where they should be. (They also have an unlimited source of Cure Light potions provided they can carry them - long story there.)

2) Somewhere in between. The final treasure is guarded by three CR3s, so the PCs have a 2 on 1 advantage here. Once those are gone, the NPC is then going to summon a handful of CR 1/2 and then run off with the loot. So there is a clear separation between the two halves of the encounter, but no time to pause between them either.


It sounds fair to me - too easy for an experienced group, but probably about right for yours.


1) Sounds very easy, nothing to it as by this time they should be plenty prepared against swarms.

2) Since it's split into a two part fight this should again be pretty easy. There are a couple different CR 3s that might be able to down a single person if the dice gods frown, but with your party composition I find that unlikely.

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