Unbalanced druid power

[50ShadesofGoblin]

PF did a lot to rein in the druid, though they were still constrained by backwards this or that. However, the polymorph spells/effects needed addressed.

I'm interested in Pathfinder Unchained partly for this reason...and partly not.

[K177Y C47]

Diego Rossi wrote:

K177Y C47 wrote:

Continual Flame...

Just saying.. its a spell... creates a fire.. that gives off light.. but does not burn...

Just throwing it out there... cuz awwwwwkkkwwwaaaarrddd...

PRD wrote:

A flame, equivalent in brightness to a torch, springs forth from an object that you touch. The effect looks like a regular flame, but it creates no heat and doesn't use oxygen. A continual flame can be covered and hidden but not smothered or quenched.

It simply a permanent version of the spell light.

That is the point! It LOOKS like fire, but does not act like real fire... like a FIRE ELEMENTAL!!!

[Marcus Robert Hosler]

K177Y C47 wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

K177Y C47 wrote:

Continual Flame...

Just saying.. its a spell... creates a fire.. that gives off light.. but does not burn...

Just throwing it out there... cuz awwwwwkkkwwwaaaarrddd...

PRD wrote:

A flame, equivalent in brightness to a torch, springs forth from an object that you touch. The effect looks like a regular flame, but it creates no heat and doesn't use oxygen. A continual flame can be covered and hidden but not smothered or quenched.

It simply a permanent version of the spell light.

That is the point! It LOOKS like fire, but does not act like real fire... like a FIRE ELEMENTAL!!!

I don't see any indication of that. From what I read the text says they are made out of fire and makes no mention to say it is fake fire or merely looks like fire.

"Elemental Subtype: An elemental is a being composed entirely from one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water."

[Marcus Robert Hosler]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Rynjin wrote:

Thanks for your last answer, Mark, I've got a new question for you though. I waffled between tossing this at you or JJ, but it seemed closer to a rules question, even though it overlaps with a setting one.

Basically...do elementals follow the rules for an element of their type?

The main example is a fire elemental. Some believe that since a fire elemental is composed of fire in its description, it therefore follows all of the rules for fire (it gives off light as a fire of its size, it sets ablaze anything it TOUCHES, not just attacks with its Burn ability, it "spreads" like an unconstrained fire, setting adjacent squares on fire if they contain flammable materials, and so on).

To a lesser extent, this applies to Water Elementals, some holding the position that it drenches anything it touches, creating mud where it moves, cushioning a fall from a great height as if falling into a body of water, etc.

I have no idea how this is meant to apply to an Earth or Air elemental.

Anywho...what are your thoughts on the matter?

I would say based on my reading that while any mechanical effects other than the ones specifically stated in the statblock are up to the individual GM to adjudicate this, the elementals are indeed composed of their respective element, based on the text of elemental in the Bestiary and UM, plus the individual elemental descriptions. The description of the fire elemental even mentions tongues of flame licking out for nearby inflammable materials, and I remember in at least one AP there's an encounter involving a building that was being burned down by a bunch of Large fire elementals. Presumably the fire elemental could "behave" if it wanted to and keep its fire tendrils to itself by essentially tiptoeing in between inflammable objects, but based on the description of binding in UM, it seems like surrounding it with that stuff and asking it not to burn them might kind of be like inviting an alcoholic to hang out alone in your wine cellar full of high quality alcohol while instructing them not to drink anything.

Thanks Rynjin for fielding the question. Oh and thanks to Mark for answering.

EDIT: Tried to bold what I think is the important part.

[insaneogeddon]

Always speak:

Wild Speech
You speak with the tongue of men and beasts.
Prerequisites: Druid level 6th, wild shape class feature.
Benefit: When using wild shape to take the form in which you cannot speak (such as an animal), you are able to speak normally in any language you know. This allows you to cast spells with verbal components, speak command words, and activate spell completion and spell trigger items. However, it does not give you the ability to cast spells requiring somatic components unless you also have the Natural Spell feat, or cast spells with material components merged into your form.
When using wild shape to take the form of an animal, you may use speak with animals to communicate with animals of your assumed form. This is a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your druid level, and you may use it for a number of minutes per day equal to your druid level. These minutes do not have to be consecutive, but must be used in one-minute increments.

[insaneogeddon]

Nobody tell the poster about:

Planar Wild Shape
You can infuse your wild shape with planar strength.
Prerequisites: Wild shape class feature, Knowledge (planes) 5 ranks.
Benefit: When you use wild shape to take the form of an animal, you can expend an additional daily use of your wild shape class feature to add the celestial template or fiendish template to your animal form. (Good druids must use the celestial template, while evil druids must use the fiendish template.) If your form has the celestial template and you score a critical threat against an evil creature while using your form's natural weapons, you gain a +2 bonus on the attack roll to confirm the critical hit. The same bonus applies if your form has the fiendish template and you score a critical threat against a good creature.

Hit Dice Resist Cold, Acid, and Electricity DR
1–4 5 —
5–10 10 5/evil
11+ 15 10/evil

and smite like a paladin...

Senses gains darkvision 60 ft.; Defensive Abilities gains DR and energy resistance as noted on the table; SR gains SR equal to new CR +5; Special Attacks smite evil 1/day as a swift action (adds Cha bonus to attack rolls and damage bonus equal to HD against evil foes; smite persists until target is dead or the celestial creature rests).