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The goal of this thread is to establish a consensus rating of the Paizo PFRPG Adventure Paths that may be ultimately compiled into a chart for reference by GM’s trying to figure out what adventure path to play.
Did you GM or play Kingmaker in its entirety? If so, please post your ratings here so they may be tallied for in a final posting that will show the results for all the adventure paths.
Please rank Kingmaker on a scale of 1-10 for each of the following categories (half points allowed):
1) GM Ease of Play: This category relates to how ready to play “out of the box” an adventure path is. Are there enough maps? Are the encounters properly detailed? Is a great deal of work required to play the modules? Readily scale-able? (1-10)
2) Synthesis of the Story: Does the story-line flow through all the modules in a way that leads the players along the path while not being so obvious as to knock them over the head rail-road style? (1-10)
3) Role-play Friendly: Are there enough opportunities for role-players to delve into the soft side of the game? Are there opportunities for well executed role-play to have a positive impact on the story line? (1-10)
4) Combat Design: Is the adventure appropriately powered for four well designed 15 point buy characters? Are there TPK-prone encounters that will probably disrupt the campaign? Will the players cruise through to the point of boredom? (1-10)
5) Fun factor: Did you have fun GMing the campaign? Did your party have fun playing the campaign? (1-10)
Currently running Kingmaker, so will gladly contribute to this thread.
1. I'd say around 7. While maps - for the most part, good maps - are included for most heavily plot-relevant locations, a great deal of the "random encounters" and "interesting resources" areas on the hex maps are not given more than a small paragraph of description, even if there is a combat encounter included. A GM would be heavily advised to have a set of generic maps on-hand for such encounters. However, if an area gets more than a page of description, it always includes a map, and as said usually a good one.
2. Very poorly - I give Kingmaker a 2. The main plot thread is very easily lost between books 2 and 5, only to resurface with a vengeance in Book 6. There are passing mentions to the main villain in all six books, but only in information that is purely in the GM's hands, with no way to make its way to the players - no major revelations or plot bread crumbs until a massive exposition from an otherwise-minor NPC in Book 5. GMs will need to put some significant effort into finding a way for that information to trickle its way down to the PCs or deal with the surprise curve ball of the plot going from mostly inter-colony/international politics in Books 2, 3 ,4, and 5 to the Through the Looking Glass bizarreness of Book 6.
3. This is where Kingmaker shines - I give this section a 10. There are tons of NPCs, almost all of which are given significant details to their backstories, and the players are given multiple options for how to deal with most of them. A bitter enemy and rival in one campaign might be cut down in a single attack in another or become a trusted and worthy ally in a third. Every playthrough of the campaign has the potential to be completely different - if I could say any AP had replayability value, I would say it was Kingmaker.
4. 8. The first book is full of random encounters that will, on an unlucky roll, end in a TPK for groups who don't understand the concept of Tactical Retreat. Unless the GM is just plain merciless, however, everything seems survivable, and while there are a few notably brutal encounters (the Owlbear in Book 1, for example) it is still quite doable for a group of players who play tactically and intelligently.
5. I would give this a 10, because I and my group are having a blast with the game we're in, but I've also homebrewed the living daylights out of it, and some of the best parts (according to my players) have been the stuff I or other GMs have added. From the as-written campaign, I'll give it a 6 - could be better, but far from terrible.
I played Kingmaker as a player rather than DM but I've read the entire path.
1) about an 8. Pretty easy to run as written but later parts will need to be scaled up once players figure out they rarely have more than one or two encounters a day and can go all out. The kingdom rules are fun at first but once you learn how to game the system it gets a bit ridiculous and we abandoned them.
2) A 2. There really isn't much going on here story wise. Each book has a plot but I had no idea there was a meta plot until I read the AP after the fact.
3) 7. because this AP is so open it can be as RP friendly as you want to make it. Combat is still essential but there is lots for RP focused PCs to do.
4) 6. Book one was quite lethal but after that aside from a few memorable encounters it wasn't too bad. There were lots of swarms. I hate swarms. The last book is full of wild and crazy combat encounters. Because of the nature of the first 4 books it is pretty easy to go Nova and have a 10 minute adventuring day.
5) 7. This AP is easily in my top 3 and maybe even top 2 (CotCT tops the list). We had lots of fun with this one and I know it is the favorite of many in my gaming group. I know it was modified a fair bit though like all of the APs that we play.
1) GM Ease of Play: 7/10
The DM has to come prepared because the scenarios assume a lot of stuff that doesn't necessarily happen. This AP inspires players to be open ended and they may seek solutions that are not anticipated. Also you need to read the important bits of each AP before hand because stuff like book 4 come out of nowhere unless the players know about the other settlements. The takeover of Fort Drelev by Pitax should be mentioned at some point to the players.
2) Synthesis of the Story: 8/10 (books 1-5)
3/10 (book 6)
Books 1-5 tell a complete story and build up towards the Brevic civil war that's been foreshadowed since the "Kingmaker Player's guide." Book 6 comes out of nowhere unless significant changes are made to the AP throughout the adventure. It's actually easier to edit book 6 OUT of continuity than it is to edit books 1-5 to include book 6.
3) Role-play Friendly: 10/10
Great and amazing. This adventure really encourages roleplay and freeform fun. So much so that a lot of people in my party didn't know how to channel their freedom.
4) Combat Design: 6/10
yes, but some real bad stuff to look out for. A lot of combats are "one combat a day against a big monster" especially books 1-3. Book 3 ends with a huge dungeon with a strong spellcasting boss at the end. A lot of players get used to wasting resources early and they may reach the boss tapped out and get easily TPKd.
5) Fun factor: 9/10
It was a lot of work and my first time GMing, so I made some mistakes in getting my new players to role play and some other problems. The only thing that was irritating was how badly layed out a lot of important stuff for the GM to know was. I consistently needed at least 4 of the books to have a grasp on anything and sometimes important info was nowhere to be found, such as a loose timeline for certain events to happen. Once I made my own timeline and made liberal use of sticky notes things were easier.
Expect lots of writing, but it was fun.
I like the idea of these threads and I would suggest you'd also include the earlier 3.5 APs.
Ran Kingmaker, so I'll contribute:
1) GM Ease of Play: Hell no. As a sandbox-y campaign, Kingmaker requires lots and lots of work by the DM. Most of this is by design, but, for example, book 5 just gives the DM a rough guideline for planning and running an entire war. 4/10.
2) Synthesis of the Story: As others have said, books 1-5 tell a great story, but book 6 (and the BBEG) seem to come from a different campaign. 7/10.
3) Role-play Friendly: Kingmaker works very well in that regard. 9/10.
4) Combat Design: Pretty well balanced, except for Nyrissa, who was way over the top. 8/10
5) Fun factor: First, we loved Kingmaker. Later on, the subsystem became kind of a drag and the story takes a sharp turn left. I've actually had more fun with most other APs I've run, but Kingmaker still was a good time. 6/10.
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I, too, am running this one currently. Almost completed with Book 4. Here's my thoughts:
1) GM Ease of Play: (4/10) If the GM isn't willing or able to do a lot of his/her own stuff for this AP, you'll literally miss half its potential. You've got to make this one your own if there's any true enjoyment to be had, as far as I've experienced. Thus, the amount of work a GM will need to put into it will be immense. Anyone looking to run this AP must go into with that understanding right from the start. One-a-day encounters do run rampant throughout the early books, and can still be present in books 4-5 if your players are heavy explorers.
2) Synthesis of the Story: (6/10) Do to its sandbox nature, there's a lot of room for interpretation here, but there is a story that runs throughout, and it can be seen if carefully brought to the attention of the players. The problem is if you don't plan for it the metaplot, your players will miss it. Someone above wrote that it's easier to take Book 6 out than it is to try and fit it into the story of Books 1-5 . . . that's true. However, I'll say openly that Book 6 of this AP is quite possibly my favorite Book 6 in any AP to date, so ripping it from the AP was never an option for me. Instead, I figured out a way to integrate the fey into a key role for the AP rather than having them play around the periphery as written.
3) Role-play Friendly: (10/10) Hands down the best RP opportunities of any AP written thus far. There's so many options and so many possible outcomes that roleplay almost becomes a necessity for enjoyment to Kingmaker. Many encounters can be completed without a fight at all if players wish to be more diplomatic than heavy-handed, and the sheer number of fleshed out NPCs is incredible.
4) Combat Design: (8/10) The vast majority of the exploration one-a-day encounters will be easily walked through by any party. However, the dungeon encounter areas are solid and will be dangerous to many. A couple of the boss fights will be quite deadly, though I don't think there was ever really a threat of a TPK in this AP. Some random encounters that can be APL +4 or +5 in the first book could do it, but only if they're rolled and players are truly careless.
5) Fun factor: (10/10) Hands down, this AP is awesome if the GM puts forth the effort to make it so. Kingmaker is built for GMs who customize their games to those playing in them, and I can say that my players haven't had so much fun in an AP yet compared to the enjoyment they've gotten out of this one. However, if a GM doesn't want to put the work into it to make it great (which will be extensive), I can see the score for such a group being significantly lower than how I rank it.
Played this all the way through as a player...
1) GM Ease of Play: 8 It seemed to be easy to run. GM needed to be prepared for PC's going anywhere. I don't think he changed to much out of the box. Our GM also ran the kingdom in the background after a concensus from players.
2) Synthesis of the Story: 8 Great storyline running through, although the final chapter seemed a bit tacked on, the lead-up somewhat obscured in earlier chapters.
3) Role-play Friendly: 7 Lots of opportunity for role-playing, a group running the kingdom building rules would have even more.
4) Combat Design: 6 Varied encounters, some hard with the wrong roll on random encounter table, or wrong direction in the sandbox. Suffered from 10 min adventuring day in most places. Our group weren't fans of the mass combat system.
5) Fun factor: 8 Really liked the hex-ploration system.
ibayboy your numerical ratings don't match your explanations.
2) Synthesis of the Story: (6/10) Do to its sandbox nature, there's a lot of room for interpretation here, but there is a story that runs throughout, and it can be seen if carefully brought to the attention of the players. The problem is if you don't plan for it the metaplot, your players will miss it. Someone above wrote that it's easier to take Book 6 out than it is to try and fit it into the story of Books 1-5 . . . that's true. However, I'll say openly that Book 6 of this AP is quite possibly my favorite Book 6 in any AP to date, so ripping it from the AP was never an option for me. Instead, I figured out a way to integrate the fey into a key role for the AP rather than having them play around the periphery as written.
I have to second this. Sound of a Thousand Screams was what got me to run Kingmaker. Without it I doubt I would have given the AP a second glance. So I just made sure to crank the fey involvement up to 11 in the earlier chapters so Book 6 didn't come in like a fly ball into left field.
It also stands as an emphatic example of why it's a really good idea to have all six chapters of an AP in hand before you start. I don't know what I would have done with the plot had I not known what to expect from the ending and how to prepare the players for it.
ibayboy your numerical ratings don't match your explanations.
I thought they did, maybe they're more like observations though?
1) GM Ease of Play: 6. I thought that Book 5 in particular has some aspects that could be challenging for new GMs. Also, if you're planning to GM this AP, you may want to decide in advance how you'd prefer to run the game when the players make choices that are likely to lead them well away from the expected storyline. Some groups may prefer hints to guide them back to the expected story, while others will want more freedom. (The more freedom you encourage, the more planning and improvisation you'll probably need to do.)
2) Synthesis of the Story: 6. In addition to the points noted by other posters above, there are some mysteries in Book 1 that won't be explained to players until the end of Book 6, so it may be good to keep a campaign journal or at least some notes from each session.
3) Role-play Friendly: 9.5. There's scope for a variety of interesting interactions, and there are opportunities to make positive changes through roleplaying.
4) Combat Design: 8. We had a larger group of players, so I can't say for certain, but I think the combats were generally well designed. I suspect a group of four PCs would need to be cautious and well prepared in order to survive some of the encounters, though.
5) Fun factor: 7.5. But this may vary depending on player preferences. If you're planning to GM this, I'd suggest checking that your players are aware that although the AP contains plenty of traditional fantasy adventure, they're also likely to be managing, ruling and defending a country, and may have to think about such things as diplomacy, justice and public opinion. This sort of game may not be to everyone's taste (there's a kingdom-in-the-background option that some groups may want to consider).
1) GM Ease of Play: 8/10. Lots of GM and player input needed, but it is 'good' input required so isn't a chore to prep or run.
2) Synthesis of the Story: 7/10. Could have done with a bit more foreshadowing, but again this was easy to do
3) Role-play Friendly: 9/10. Lots. Great party interplay and not a single annoying "Look at me, I am so important to the AP NPC" in sight
4) Combat Design: 8/10. Yep, fine for a 15pt 4 party-team....though I am not sure they exist!
5) Fun factor: 9.5/10 Yes we did. Some bits mini game not overly party friendly