Hello people,
I've been playing a Ranger(Trapper)/Zen Archer in a Wrath of the Righteous game - we are currently at level 4 and my character is Ranger1/ZA3 - the Ranger dip was taken because the group needed both a scout/trapfinder, and some ranged support - so far I am happy with the outcome, and the character is able to do both.
Zen Archers are well... You know... And in spite of the Stealth not being up there in astronomic levels, it has been enough to not get me killed yet. With some masterwork tools and Wisdom in the Flesh, I also managed a decent skill level in Disable Device, and since I usually have a hard time playing 'unsklled' characters, I went ahead and bumped his Int, in detriment of Con, so he even sports some useful skills.
So it's all cool. There are two things that make me feel kinda funky though - since this is Wrath of the Righteous, I feel like I would like to give some more 'divine' orientation to the character - I am not playing him as the 'usual' silent type monk, but instead a focused, balanced character that actively wants to do good, will sacrifice himself for others, and actively wants to turn the tide of events around him; the other thing is more related to the mechanics of the character itself, and the available options - dang, the guys shoots, and shoots, and shoots, and shoots... I try to play him as diverse as I can, sometimes I think I am even too reckless, tumbling through threatened spaces to offer flanking to melees, taking point when I already know behind that door the bad guys are waiting, offering tactical advice during combat, etc, etc - still, I want MORE! :D
I know multiclassing is considered the 'path not to follow' in Pathfinder, but I'm starting to take a look at other classes that could complement my idea for the character, still keeping him effective at what he does and... Why not - offering him additional options to play with?
That being said, I was considering:
- Sticking to ZA and that's that. I know I'll be good at shooting arrows, and a couple other skills I dedicate myself to. Will be an effective character for sure;
- Dip Inquisitor. Inquisitors are grim, and I like that - would give me some extra cool abilities (bane, judgment, monster lore, bonus to init, tracking, etc), spells, skills, and contribute to the 'take the fight into their courtyard' attitude. It would hurt my BAB (Maybe it is not THAT bad since the 3 levels in ZA already give me a decent attack bonus for the time being), but might provide for an interesting game experience - not sure if I would bet on the feather domain for some cool animal companion (Not sure if it would ever get to be strong), or a conversion like heresy to buff up some of my skills - Iomedae, Irori, or perhaps Erastil would be thematically appropriate;
- Dip Priest - yep, I've got the Wisdom for it, and having a huge spell list is always fun - not sure on domains, but again Iomedae, Irori or Erastil would make sense. It hurts my skills, BAB and feats... But it gets me SPELLS :D
- Even thought about going Evangelist, the new PrC from Inner Sea Gods - and just pack on some nice things on top of the abilities available to Zen Archer (getting to keep ALL of those is just... Damn good)
So what do you people think? Does any of this make sense? Any other suggestions?
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Well, if you have Wisdom in the Flesh, you already worship Irori. It's a faith trait.
Personally, I would either stay with ZAM or go Inquisitor now and stay inquisitor. A dip of Inquisitor doesn't give that much that is worth delaying the goodies that ZAM brings. But if you go full inquisitor, you will have enough judgments and bane to be useful without missing the the increased deadliness too much.
Not sure how good this is on the mechanical end but trapper rangers probably make a good base for a trickster mythic path. But you wont be able tonreally uze awesome until lvl 13 when you can hit people with traps at range.
Sadly though with being spellless they have lost their divine connection.
Well, if you have Wisdom in the Flesh, you already worship Irori. It's a faith trait.
You are right of course Imbicatus - he already follows Irori...
Personally, I would either stay with ZAM or go Inquisitor now and stay inquisitor. A dip of Inquisitor doesn't give that much that is worth delaying the goodies that ZAM brings. But if you go full inquisitor, you will have enough judgments and bane to be useful without missing the the increased deadliness too much.
Ok, would you stop the progression in ZA right away at level 3? Or do you think it would be worth it to take it a step further? Maybe up to level 6? One thing confuses me though - If my source of multiple attacks per round is the Flurry, what happens if I don't progress any further as a monk? How do I manage to gain more attacks?
Another thing, assuming I would keep 3 more levels in ZA before going Inquisitor, would it be a better option to simply go ZA until level 6, and then change, or it makes sense to take an Inquisitor level, then a ZA one, etc?
Not sure how good this is on the mechanical end but trapper rangers probably make a good base for a trickster mythic path. But you wont be able tonreally uze awesome until lvl 13 when you can hit people with traps at range.
Sadly though with being spellless they have lost their divine connection.
Now there is one thing I don't have much experience with - Mythic. According to your perspective Mojorat, I would instead stop taking levels in ZA, and focus Ranger (Trapper)?
I gotta agree that, if progressing as Ranger, it sucks not having spellcasting :D
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Ok, would you stop the progression in ZA right away at level 3? Or do you think it would be worth it to take it a step further? Maybe up to level 6? One thing confuses me though - If my source of multiple attacks per round is the Flurry, what happens if I don't progress any further as a monk? How do I manage to gain more attacks?Another thing, assuming I would keep 3 more levels in ZA before going Inquisitor, would it be a better option to simply go ZA until level 6, and then change, or it makes sense to take an Inquisitor level, then a ZA one, etc?
Well, it's a balancing act for multiclassing. If you change to Inquisitor now, Flurry doesn't progress, but you can take Rapid Shot and Manyshot to make up for it's lack. Progressing Inquisitor will give access to spells, judgements and Bane, as well as giving you skill bonuses and a domain/inquisition.
If you stay ZA to 6, you might as well keep with it, although I could see a point for Inquisitor 2 for Cunning Initiative and back to ZAM.
my vote would definitely be for the evangelist PrC. take 1 more ZA level (because you need 5 levels to get in, and to minimize hits to BAB).
with attuned class you'll only lose out on one level of monk progression; your saves will take a little bit of a hit but you get extra skills, more class skills, bonuses with untrained skills and all the benefits from deific obedience. should be a great, flavorful build.
@Imbicatus: Ok, I think I got it - so if one actually wants to dip, say... 3 levels in Zen Archer, he/she will still have to rely on archery feats like rapid shot, etc, to be able to continue progressing - so it would make more sense taking Rapid Shot with ZA, even if you don't need it initially, correct?
So, for example in my case, I have:
Improved Unarmed Strike
Perfect Strike
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Point Blank Master
Weapon Focus (longbow)
Deadly Aim
Toughness
So, at level 5 I would take Rapid Shot, and take it from there, right?
(On a side note, I have seen you hint at going ZA/Empyreal Sorcerer in another thread :D Would that just be a single dip?)
@nate lange: Yeah, the Evangelist PrC REALLY has some appeal to a Zen Archer - the progression as monk gets delayed for a level, and yes, the saves do take a hit but... Apart from that, it just seems all good.
If one is looking for a divinely oriented character, it just adds good stuff to an already strong class like the ZA - I definitely like it. And even though the Irori boons are nothing out of this world for a Zen Archer (apart from the 3rd one), they are still cool to have.
Decisions... Decisions...
Usual exits from ZA are level 3 (wis for archery), level 4 (waiting for ki), or level 6 (for weapon spec).
If you want to keep bumping up your archery and are multiclassing, then you'll need to backfill the basics of the archery feat chain (rapid, etc.) but if you're going towards switch hitting in some way (melee/archery or spellcasting/archery), you can still flurry and get the extra attack without those feats. You can add 1 more level of ranger to get rapid quite easily, with no BAB deficit.
As said, empyreal sorcerer can lead to arcane archer, which could be amusing.
Inquisitor does seem to add spells and support some of the noncombat roles you're already taking. If you go that way, you might want to devote significant levels to it to make it work for you.