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Hey all,
I wanted to throw a few Cleric builds out here and see how everyone thought about them. I'm designing these for PFS and some of the builds incorporate the new feats/etc from the Inner Sea Gods book.
Class - Forgemaster, Cleric
Race - Dwarf
Traits -
* Armor Expert
* Fate’s Favored
Deity –
* Torag
Domain -
* Artifice
Stats with Dwarf modifiers -
Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 5
1) Forgemaster 1: Bab +0, Metamagic: Extend (lvl 1), +1hp
2) Forgemaster 2: Bab +1, +1hp
3) Forgemaster 3: Bab +2, Power Attack (lvl 3), +1hp
4) Forgemaster 4: Bab +3, +1 Str, +1hp
5) Forgemaster 5: Bab +3, Blessed Hammer (5), +1hp
6) Forgemaster 6: Bab +4, +1hp
7) Forgemaster 7: Bab +5, Metamagic: Quicken Spell (lvl 7), +1hp
8) Forgemaster 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Str, +1hp
9) Forgemaster 9: Bab +7/+2, Weapon Focus: Warhammer (lvl 9), +1hp
10) Forgemaster 10: Bab +7/+2, +1hp
11) Forgemaster 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11), +1hp
I've always thought the Forgemaster was pretty weak but going over it one last time I noticed two really interesting things.
1) Divine Smith - spells targeting a weapon, shield, or armor is cast at +1 caster level.
2) Also you may apply a metamagic feat to a spell that targets a weapon, shield, or armor it's cast at a -1 level adjustment. Which means that you can cast Extend metamagic on these spells for free.
Able to cast buffs on weapon and armor at x2 duration and store cure/inflict spells in warhammer that can be dealt with melee attack on top of spell enhanced weapon. At 3rd level Forgemaster gets Heavy Armor Proficiency also. Should allow for a pretty tanky/offensive fighter.
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2nd Build is more geared towards using Sanctuary, Inspire Courage, and Channel healing with the added bonus of Fateful Channel to boost team's effectiveness.
Class - Cleric
Race - Human
Traits -
* Exalted of the Society - +1 chanel per day
* Mediator
Deity –
* Pharasma
Domain -
* Repose
* Defense
Stats with human modifier-
Str: 7
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 18 + 2 racial = 20
Cha: 14
1) Evangelist 1: Bab +0, Lingering Performance (lvl 1), Peacemaker (human), +1hp
2) Evangelist 2: Bab +1, +1hp
3) Evangelist 3: Bab +2, Selective Channel (lvl 3), +1hp
4) Evangelist 4: Bab +3, +1 Wis, +1hp
5) Evangelist 5: Bab +3, Quick Channel (5), +1hp
6) Evangelist 6: Bab +4, +1hp
7) Evangelist 7: Bab +5, Fateful Channel (lvl 7), +1hp
8) Evangelist 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Wis, +1hp
9) Evangelist 9: Bab +7/+2, Extra Channel (lvl 9), +1hp
10) Evangelist 10: Bab +7/+2, +1hp
11) Evangelist 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11), +1hp
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3rd build is somewhat typical for Negative Channeler but it seems like a lot of fun so I'm including it.
Class - Crusader (Cleric Archetype)
Race - Human
Traits -
* Exalted of the Society - +1 chanel per day
* Armor Expert - -1 ACP
Domain -
* Death
Stats with human modifier -
Str: 14
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 14
Cha: 16 + 2 racial = 18
1) Crusader 1: Bab +0, Selective Channel (lvl 1), Shatter Resolve (human), Heavy Armor Proficiency (crusader), +1hp
2) Crusader 2: Bab +1, +1hp
3) Crusader 3: Bab +2, Command Undead (lvl 3), +1hp
4) Crusader 4: Bab +3, +1 Cha, +1hp
5) Crusader 5: Bab +3, Quickened Channel (lvl 5), Weapon Focus: Scythe (crusader), +1hp
6) Crusader 6: Bab +4, +1hp
7) Crusader 7: Bab +5, Improved Channel (lvl 7), +1hp
8) Crusader 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Cha, +1hp
9) Crusader 9: Bab +7/+2, Extra Channel (lvl 9), +1hp
10) Crusader 10: Bab +7/+2, Improved Critical: Scythe (crusader), +1hp
11) Crusader 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11), +1hp
Str 14 for better chance to melee with Scythe and weight allowance when weighed down with Platemail armor. "Nail of the Princess" seems fun/interesting with the ability to hold negative energy. Main offense is Negative Channeling with Shatter Resolve though as multiple failed will saves stack shaken to frightened and later to panicked. Somewhat worried about the 12 con though and this build only allows 2 skill points per level so skill points are limited.
i like your pacifist build but if you're serious about wanting sanctuary to remain viable until 11th level you need to at least squeeze in heighten spell and would really benefit from spell focus x2. if you really want to focus on buff/channel (like it seems), you might want to switch to an aasimar (the extra +2 Cha = +1 channel/day and +1 DC) and rely on armor (and keeping a low profile in combat) for protection; you could even grab a longspear and use it for aid other periodically.
its an interesting build with both elements, but it would be more effective if you focus on one or the other.
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Excellent idea on Heighten Spell feat as it would help a ton and I can't get it via a rod. I believe putting "Metamagic: Heighten Spell" in the level 5 slot and moving "Quick Channel" to the level 9 slot, while removing "Extra Channel" would probably work out quite well.
I really feel that Spell Focus: Abjuration would be a waste though as there's hardly any Divine spells that I can think of besides Sanctuary that would benefit greatly. Can you think of any worthwhile ones that would make this a good idea?
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I know Build #3 is a bit typical but Build #1 I think actually turns out to be one of the strongest combat Clerics around. Weapon/Armor buffs are cast at +1 higher level and Extended for free while you can store Inflict/Cure spells in your warhammer for extra damage.
Remember Blessed Hammer allows you to deal touch spells during a melee attack. Example of 1 attack from a lvl 1 Forgemaster. -
Warhammer: 1d8 + (Sun Metal - 1d4 fire dmg) + (Inflict Light Wounds - 1d8 +1).
Higher levels would include strong Inflict spells and the use of Greater Magic Weapon. Thoughts on this or is it more misleading / a trap with this kind of build?
yeah... spell focus might almost be necessary if you want Sanctuary to be reliable... beyond that it does effect Dismissal, Dispel Evil/Law/Chaos, and Banishment, that could be pretty useful in many adventures (there may be others as well, those are just off the top of my head).
build #1 looks, to me, like exactly what the forgemaster was meant to be (i think its an under-appreciated/under-explored archetype).
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Build #2 rework, in spirit of raising Sanctuary's DC.
Class - Cleric
Race - Human
Traits -
* Exalted of the Society - +1 chanel per day
* Mediator
Deity –
* Milani
Domain -
* Defense
* Animal
Stats -
Str: 7
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 18 + 2 racial = 20
Cha: 14
1) Separatist 1: Bab +0, Spell Focus: Abjuration (lvl 1), Peacemaker (human), +1hp
2) Separatist 2: Bab +1, +1hp
3) Separatist 3: Bab +2, Metamagic: Heighten Spell (lvl 3), +1hp
4) Separatist 4: Bab +3, +1 Wis, +1hp
5) Separatist 5: Bab +3, Varisian Tattoo: Abjuration (5), +1hp
6) Separatist 6: Bab +4, +1hp
7) Separatist 7: Bab +5, Boon Companion (lvl 7), +1hp
8) Separatist 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Wis, +1hp
9) Separatist 9: Bab +7/+2, Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration (lvl 9), +1hp
10) Separatist 10: Bab +7/+2, +1hp
11) Separatist 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11), +1hp
As a Separatist I'm picking up an animal companion, which requires 1 feat (Boon Companion) for my animal companion to be 1 level behind me instead of -5. Milani gives access to Good Hope as a 3rd level buffing spell.
Unfortunately I'm missing out on "Beacon of Hope" which would practically replicate the Evangelist build (+2 morale bonus on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks for 2 rounds after a healing channel on allies). If fitting this in somewhere I could remove Varisian Tattoo or scratch the Boon Companion idea?
The other alternative would be to pick Cloistered Cleric for the free "Spell Focus" at level 4 along with the extra skill points per level....but that's at a cost of -1 spell per spell level and -1 domain. Which seems like a pretty big tax.
Selective Channel is needed to heal only my allies and not give them the "Fateful Channel" buff as well. I could remove Quick Channel but I added that for when I needed to cast a spell and get the benefits of channel heal + double roll for allies in the same turn. Divine Interference is typically the best feat for a Cleric at 11th level also..
Not seeing much budging room with the initial build but it allows for more constant Morale buffs and the spontaneous casting of Evangelist has some decent synergy with Peacemaker by increasing DC's for Command, Enthrall, Suggestion, Greater Command.
Any suggestions for improving the initial build and remaining an Evangelist?
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@Matt2VK - Picking anything other than a warhammer would lower damage output. Blessed Hammer only works with warhammers to add touch spells like Inflict to a melee attack.
Multiclassing will lower the advancement of Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Magic Vestment, Divine Power, and Greater Magic Weapon.
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Any thoughts on the Pacifist build?
Evangelists only get oe domain. And if I'd pick any domain for a pacifist it would be Glory.
Divine presence scales easily and is doesn't require the investment into the DC that Sanctuary does and protects your allies as well.
As a comparison.
Santuary at 8th level heightened up to a 4th level spell with 20 wisdom and spell focusx2 has a DC of 21.
Divine presence will be 19. However it also covers your allies and requires no feat investment.
Glory also gives some rather good spells and buffs. Bless Weapon, I've found, is invaluable to some groups and you ahve more incentive to buff someone than a paladin who normally gets it.
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While Divine Presence does give a nice DC of 19, Sanctuary should be at a DC of 20 with a +4 wis headband and Peacemaker feat. If investing in Heighten Spell at 9th level the DC would be 23 for myself. I do agree the Glory domain does look appealing though but the only spell gained that's not already on the Clerics list (during PFS career) is Bless Weapon and that's only once a day.
DC for Santuary at 8th level heightened up to 4th level with 24 wisdom (including +4 wis headband), spell focus x2, and Peacemaker feat has a DC of 25 compared to the Divine Presence's DC of 19.
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Where is "Blessed Hammer" from?
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Blessed%20Hammer
In all honesty the Forgemaster was really poorly done by Paizo but a worshipper of Torag can take the Blessed Hammer feat. I just suggested Forgemaster with its Heavy Armor Proficiency and x2 duration weapon/armor spells for a melee Cleric. Could work with base Cleric or other Archetypes but still need to be a worshipper of Torag.
I just feel the Blessed Hammer feat kind of completes the Forgemaster design to make it useful. Otherwise I'd suggest something else.
Sorry for the slight thread Necro.
What's so awesome about Blessed Hammer for the Forgemaster?
Seems to me that it would be a huge drain on your resources at least at low levels (so PFS) especially as you want to be burning most of your 1st and thrid level castings for bread and butter buffs. Two of your third level slots will likely be taken up by GMW and MV (3 if you want to buff your shield). First level spells should likely be used up by Lead Blades and Divine Favor, you can likely spare a few second level castings early on which will do an average of 15 damage pre save 2-3 times a day.
Add to that the fact that you essentially get a free spell storing weapon as of level 4 for most of the day Blessed Hammer seems a bit redundant.
I was debating a forgemaster myself and was thinking more along the lines of using lead blades on my Dwarven Waraxe to dish out 2d8+STR+Divine Favor+GMW on a consitent basis. Waraxe proficiency can be picked up via a trait (Heirloom Weapon). Burst damage can be provided via Spell Storing.
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First: By the time you can take it (fifth level) you're more or less on your way out of the low levels and entering the mids. You have 3rd and in some cases only 2nd level spells (in which case you have a lot of spells) which means that your first level slots go to bless a cure and personal buffs but you have plenty of superior options and can realistically adventure without ever using the first level spells at this point, but you probably will.
You also get to use it as your holy symbol so no need to have an actual holy symbol on and when you're in need of a divine focus. And you can basically spell strike like a magus. Since you do not see the value in spell strike (otherwise you wouldn't be asking why this feat is good) let me explain.
I could cast a touch spell that deals 2d8+5, attack with it, deal my 14 dmg, move and pass turn.
Or I could cast a touch spell that deals 2d8+5, store it in my weapon which deals 1d8+str mod (before buffs and weapon enhancements), attack with the weapon and deal the 14 from the spell and probably another 14 from the weapon, move and pass turn.
So the difference is that you can take lower level spells which do some damage, cast them in your weapon and make the weapon attack and deal the spells damage without having to spend two rounds and making two attack rolls to do the same thing.
On another note: I recently made a low int, scythe using negative channeler under the belief that it was different and cool. I even tried finding a weapon type that almost nobody used, ever, combined with a playstyle hardly anybody even acknowledged existed. However, then I found your thread, and about 20 others. Apparently, scythe wielding negative energy channeling priests are almost as common as fighters Paladins and new players with pregens (I exaggerate).
That said, I would either play something else, see if you could modify it to be different (I value straying from the standard), or playing it as is because the concept is cool, even if everybody else seems to have the almost exact same idea.
I would also add that Crusader is an interesting archetype. I am not sure if it is better than simply grabbing a level or two of Fighter, however.
The ability to start with heavy armor proficiency is very nice as is the improved Critical feat being available at 10. This really matters with a scythe. However, we are looking at 3 combat feats from a select list vs 2 from a very large one. Many of the feats we want and can choose are given for free with a single level of fighter (heavy armor proficiency, martial weapon proficiency, Tower Shield Proficiency). Levels 1-5 offer very little benefit over a fighter level since there are only 4 feats to choose that aren't automatically gained and you can grab whichever ones you want as a fighter. Furthermore, because you're a negative energy channeler your wisdom will not be as high and you won't have bonus spells beyond maybe 2nd level spells. In this case, Diminished casting is going to effectively cost you a spell level whenever you would gain access to a new one. Two levels of fighter effectively do the same thing but give you more feats and higher bab for doing so. Losing a single domain can be a big deal or not so much of one. But for DPs choosing strengths sub domain, Ferocity, allows you a few times a day the option of hitting pretty hard.
Then there is channel smite. All in all I figure the fighter dip on a generic cleric gives a lot more than crusader. But having access to improved crit when you normally wouldn't whole staying full cleric is pretty awesome. I just think you give up too much in the process.
Spellstrike is good for a magus because he has spells like frostbite that use up little resources or metamagiced shocking grasps which deal insane damage on a hit as well as an arcane pool which can replenish your castings. He also has a high critting weapon (which a warhammer ain't) and static to hit modifiers meaning he will resolve his attacks more often.
Low level Cleric spells deal rather puny damage and allow saves.
So in my book comparing Blessed Hammer and Spellstrike is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.
Also low level cleric spells are rather kick ass buffs. At level 5 Divine Favor (with Fate's Favored) is good for +3 to attack and damage.The Forgemaster Archetype in particular has access to lead blades which with a waraxe will add an average of 4.5 damage per hit and assuming you picked up extend spell has a duration of 2xlevel+2 minutes. So both of these spells present pretty awesome value for money. A light inflict spell in comparison is good for an average of 9 damage (DC 14 Wilf save for half) on one hit.
So to sum it up I'm not sold on Blessed Hammer, particularly not for the Forgemaster which has stronger 1st level buffs and kind of has to spend his third level slots for all day buffs.