Evangelist and early access via SLA

[DirkSJ]

So at first when I read the new Inner Sea Gods Evangelist PrC I thought, wow, a PrC that doesn't completely suck! Do those even exist?!? And then I got to thinking about it...and how the pre-reqs use "or" and in that "or" list they have 3rd level spells which means every base aasimar with daylight.

I thought, wait, oh no, you can get into this at level 2. Turns out, no, you can't get in until level 4 due to the feat having 3 skill ranks as a pre-req but this may be our first contender for "SLA's grant PrC access" being overpowered.

You can get a 3rd level SLA from a lot of sources:
- Any aasimar (dailight)
- Any svirfniblin (nondetection or stoneshape)
- Wizard (scryer school)
- Any drow w/ feat (deeper darkness)
(credit goes to google doc that I cant link due to forum rules)

So...the question then is this: Is it ok to get into this class at 4 instead of 6? The answer may actually still be yes.

First off you take a 1 level hit to your progression in the prior class since Aligned Class doesn't click in until PrC lvl 2. Also a full melee char isn't likely going to want to take the BAB hit.

Others may fall foul of the way Aligned Class is worded...it says it stacks for determining what class features you gain but it does NOT say your effective level in your prior class adds your PrC levels and does NOT say that level based class features you already have access to continue to advance based on your PrC level.

Let's take an example:

Aligned Class:

Quote:

Evangelists come from many different backgrounds, and they show an unusual range of diversity. At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class.

Sneak Attack:

Quote:

If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

Aligned Class appears to not give you any extra sneak attack dice at all as sneak attack dice are computed based on your rogue level alone and Aligned Class does not increase your rogue level with respect to class features you already have...it just increases it for class features you would gain.

Conversely:

Hex:

Quote:

Witches learn a number of magic tricks, called hexes, that grant them powers or weaken foes. At 1st level, a witch gains one hex of her choice. She gains an additional hex at 2nd level and for every 2 levels attained after 2nd level, as noted on Table: Witch. A witch cannot select an individual hex more than once.

Unless otherwise noted, using a hex is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The save to resist a hex is equal to 10 + 1/2 the witch’s level + the witch’s Intelligence modifier.

You do get extra hexes as the PrC levels determine what class features you gain but the save DC does not go up as your effective witch level is unaffected by the PrC levels.

TL;DR - Aligned Class is a poorly worded, confusing, potentially broken class feature. But I think because of that early access to PrC through SLA is still ok.

[Diego Rossi]

"essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains"

Sneak attack +xd6 his a class feature of the rogue.
Look the rightmost column on the "Table: Rogue" of the rogue class. It list the features you get.

[DirkSJ]

Diego Rossi wrote:

"essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains"

Sneak attack +xd6 his a class feature of the rogue.
Look the rightmost column on the "Table: Rogue" of the rogue class. It list the features you get.

The table is not the rule. The rule clearly states that you gain it at 1st level and it increases based on your rogue level. Evangelist does not say your class features continue to improve based on your PrC level.

Very similar to the witch Hex DC example.

[Taperat]

First of all, I'm not sure about the community's consensus regarding allowing early access to PRCs via SLAs, but I as a GM would never allow it. It says 'ability to cast third level spells'. Having a 3rd level SLA does not give you the 'ability to cast third level spells'', but rather the ability to duplicate a third level spell effect. Not equivalent. Now, to the point you're making. It seems clear to me that the intent of the prestige class is 'continue advancing as your previous class, minus one level, and gain some (frankly) minor additional abilities'. I find your interpretation of 'gains' to be extremely nitpicky, and I can't see how the designers could have foreseen this argument. Guess you'll have wait for official clarification.

[Jiggy]

Taperat wrote:

First of all, I'm not sure about the community's consensus regarding allowing early access to PRCs via SLAs, but I as a GM would never allow it. It says 'ability to cast third level spells'. Having a 3rd level SLA does not give you the 'ability to cast third level spells'', but rather the ability to duplicate a third level spell effect. Not equivalent.

Regarding this point, it's actually fully vetted as legit by the Design Team, via both FAQs and message board clarifications. The ability to satisfy prereqs with SLAs is not just a "community consensus", it's official.

That said, the GM can ban those FAQs just as easily as they can ban guns or ninjas or whatever else they don't like, so your home game is safe. :)

[David knott 242]

It is this very example that has led James Jacobs to ask for a reconsideration of the relevant FAQ, as he indicated in another thread. But until that discussion is resolved or some other errata is issued, the SLA for early access gimmick works perfectly well for the Evangelist prestige class.

[Rogue Eidolon]

David knott 242 wrote:

It is this very example that has led James Jacobs to ask for a reconsideration of the relevant FAQ, as he indicated in another thread. But until that discussion is resolved or some other errata is issued, the SLA for early access gimmick works perfectly well for the Evangelist prestige class.

Except in PFS, where Additional Resources specifically blocks the early access for Evangelist. And in a home game, the GM can decide what they want to allow anyway.

[Jiggy]

Rogue Eidolon wrote:

Except in PFS, where Additional Resources specifically blocks the early access for Evangelist.

Oh hey, I missed that! The more you know. :)