Alright, so after a thread in the Advice forum, I thought it would be pretty cool to have a Magus who uses archery, but when enemies get too close he'll stab them with a Shocking Grasp'd arrow.
Rule-wise, this is what we have to work with. As far as I know, anyway.
The problem here is you run out of hands. You hold the bow with one hand, the arrow with the other, then you can't actually cast your spell.
Or can you cast shocking grasp, then draw the arrow to deliver it with?
If not, can we make this work somehow within the rules? I think a prehensile tail race could do it, but stabbing shot is for some reason a highly guarded elven technique.
There's no reason Stabbing Shot should be racially restricted, so talk to your GM.
Well ... there's always Still Spell.
Or can you cast shocking grasp, then draw the arrow to deliver it with?
If you can take a free action between the casting and the delivering, I don't see why you couldn't.
I believe you can cast a touch spell, 5 foot step, then deliver the touch, so I don't see why you couldn't perform a different free action between those two steps.
That said, there seems to be another problem. Spell Combat calls out specifically that your other hand needs to contain a light or one handed melee weapon, so I don't think you could combine the two for a full attack while drawing the arrow as your weapon. Unless you drop the bow first, of course.
So looking a little more carefully, I see "you may choose to make a melee attack against that opponent with a drawn arrow rather than firing it"
Thus you can't draw the arrow after casting.
And that is a good point about Spell Combat's restriction. We could somehow get Bowstaff, but then we'd have to actually use it as a club as spell combat specifies melee attacks. That is a bit of a shame. The dream is dead.
Thanks for the responses.
Technically drawing and nocking an arrow is described as a "Not an Action" meaning it is included in the firing of the bow. I suppose a GM could easily rule drawing it as a Free Action. I remember reading somewhere that touching your own equipment and self doesn't count as touching something that discharges the spell. Can't recall where I saw that though. But if that's the case, you'd be free to draw that arrow.
As I see it: If you get it to work with the stabbing shot it should work with rough and ready, too as long as you have craft: Fletcher or something like it. That way you don't need to be an elf.
And cast spell, draw, stab should work because drop weapon (or be disarmed), pick up weapon, stab would work, too. If I'm not mistaken that is described in an FAQ.
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Technically drawing and nocking an arrow is described as a "Not an Action" meaning it is included in the firing of the bow. I suppose a GM could easily rule drawing it as a Free Action. I remember reading somewhere that touching your own equipment and self doesn't count as touching something that discharges the spell. Can't recall where I saw that though. But if that's the case, you'd be free to draw that arrow.
Au contraire, there is a specific exception for touching your weapon when using spellstrike, but normally touching anything, including your gear or your person, will discharge a touch spell.
Things like air, raindrops and (I think) water while swimming, don't count, but anything more substantial than that will discharge a touch spell.
Magus: Can a magus use spellstrike (page 10) to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat (Core Rulebook page 185). So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.
On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.
Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells.
—Sean K Reynolds, 02/07/12 Back to Top
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So looking a little more carefully, I see "you may choose to make a melee attack against that opponent with a drawn arrow rather than firing it"
Thus you can't draw the arrow after casting.
And that is a good point about Spell Combat's restriction. We could somehow get Bowstaff, but then we'd have to actually use it as a club as spell combat specifies melee attacks. That is a bit of a shame. The dream is dead.
Thanks for the responses.
I think you can draw an arrow after casting shocking grasp and use it as a improvised melee weapon (see the FAQ cited above).
The problem is that Stabbing Shot call for a full attack. The "free" attack granted by spellstrike isn't a full attack, so you can't cast a spell and make a Stabbing Shot attack using spellstrike.
You incur with a similar problem for spell combat: the bow isn't a one handed or light melee weapon, nor the arrow, and youa re using a special full round action that isn't exactly a full attack.
This FAQ say that it count as a full attack for haste and other effects so maybe you can use. It is not clear if "other effect" mean "other haste effects" or "all effects that call for a full attack".
Magus, Spell Combat: Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?Yes.
Edit 9/9/13: This is a revised ruling about how haste interacts with effects that are essentially a full attack, even though the creature isn't specifically using the full attack action (as required by haste). The earlier ruling did not allow the extra attack from haste when using spell combat.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 04/05/13
The Myrmidarch magus archetype seem to be capable to use spell combat with a bow (maybe, unless his Ranged Spellstrike isn't limited to throw weapons), so it seem what you want.
The problem is that Stabbing Shot call for a full attack.
I missed that. Yeah, in that case, it's impossible to combine the two, though one can cast the spell on one round, hold the charge and use stabbing shot on the next, discharging on the melee.
That said, there's still the option of using the arrow as an improvised weapon, with all the penalties that entails. At that point, though, you're probably just better off getting quick draw and picking up something you can use with it.
Technically drawing and nocking an arrow is described as a "Not an Action" meaning it is included in the firing of the bow. I suppose a GM could easily rule drawing it as a Free Action. I remember reading somewhere that touching your own equipment and self doesn't count as touching something that discharges the spell. Can't recall where I saw that though. But if that's the case, you'd be free to draw that arrow.Au contraire, there is a specific exception for touching your weapon when using spellstrike, but normally touching anything, including your gear or your person, will discharge a touch spell.
Things like air, raindrops and (I think) water while swimming, don't count, but anything more substantial than that will discharge a touch spell.
Sorry. Wasn't clear. Was referring to the Shocking Grasp aspect.
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Dip a level of wizard, and make you bow a bonded object, that way you can cast with it in your hand. Take catch off guard, and always keep an arrow in hand. You now have the option of nocking the arrow and firing it from the bow as a free action as part of a bow attack, or using it as an Improvised dagger with spell strike, using the bow hand to cast and the arrow to deliver the strike.
Yup, seems like you could draw a weapon then spellstrike, but you can't spell combat. For my purposes the suggested Rough and Ready trait will be best, but Spell Combat will still require you to drop the bow (or use a race with a tail to hold onto the bow), and will lock you into a full flurry with the arrow itself.
Dip a level of wizard, and make you bow a bonded object, that way you can cast with it in your hand. Take catch off guard, and always keep an arrow in hand. You now have the option of nocking the arrow and firing it from the bow as a free action as part of a bow attack, or using it as an Improvised dagger with spell strike, using the bow hand to cast and the arrow to deliver the strike.
The problem isn't that the bow keeps you from casting, it's that Spell Combat requires you to be wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in one hand - and then by FAQ you must use that weapon to make your attacks.
Even if the spell you're casting has no somatic components, one hand still must be empty to use Spell Combat. In the scenario you present, one hand is occupied by the bow; even if the other is empty, the bow isn't a light or one-handed weapon.
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Sorry. Wasn't clear. Was referring to the Shocking Grasp aspect.Technically drawing and nocking an arrow is described as a "Not an Action" meaning it is included in the firing of the bow. I suppose a GM could easily rule drawing it as a Free Action. I remember reading somewhere that touching your own equipment and self doesn't count as touching something that discharges the spell. Can't recall where I saw that though. But if that's the case, you'd be free to draw that arrow.Au contraire, there is a specific exception for touching your weapon when using spellstrike, but normally touching anything, including your gear or your person, will discharge a touch spell.
Things like air, raindrops and (I think) water while swimming, don't count, but anything more substantial than that will discharge a touch spell.
Shocking grasp is a touch range spell, it has no exceptions, it discharge as soon as you touch something that you hadn't previously in your hand.
AFAIK, the only exception with touch spells discharging as soon as you touch something is spellstrike that allow you to grab a weapon after casting a touch range spell.
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Dip a level of wizard, and make you bow a bonded object, that way you can cast with it in your hand. Take catch off guard, and always keep an arrow in hand. You now have the option of nocking the arrow and firing it from the bow as a free action as part of a bow attack, or using it as an Improvised dagger with spell strike, using the bow hand to cast and the arrow to deliver the strike.
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Having a bonded weapon in hand don't allow you to make the somatic gestures with that hand (unless you are a Arcane Duelist bard).
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Drawing an arrow is a Free action. Nocking the arrow (placing it to the bowstring) is a "not an action" action. So you can freely draw an arrow and just hold it in your hand. To compare, you can just as easily cast Shocking Grasp, then quick-draw a Greatsword with which to deliver it.
Stabbing Shot essentially replaces your Rapid Shot bonus attack with a melee attack using the arrow combined with a 5' push. But there's no rule that says you can't cast, say, a quickened Shocking Grasp with a Longbow in hand, draw an Arrow as a free action, deliver the Shocking Grasp via Arrow using either a normal iterative attack or Stabbing Shot, then continue by firing your bow.
Regarding Myrmidarch, he gets no ability that counteracts the requirement of Spell Combat that says you need to have a light or one-handed weapon in one hand and your other hand must be free to cast your spells. So there's not really a way to Spell Combat using a ranged weapon like the Bow. Given how the archetype is explained in the fluff, it's aimed to be more of a switch-hitter, switching to traditional melee spell combat when the enemy closes ranks
The myrmidarch is a skilled specialist, using magic to supplement and augment his martial mastery. Less inclined to mix the two than a typical magus, the myrmidarch seeks supremacy with blade, bow, and armor.
If you are a myrmidarch it is possible to use ranged spellstrike + spell combat with some throw weapon: daggers, clubs, shortspears, throwing axes, light hammers, starknife and trident are all light or oen handed melee weapons. It become possible to make multiple attacks with ranged spellstrike at level 11 if you have quickdraw.
Seeing the class fluff it seem counter intuitive not to allow that with a bow, but it can be a intended feature (a lot of ranged touch spells have a range of short and allowing to deliver them with a arrow would greatly extend it).